List of oldest U.S. chicken breeds. Is it correct?

[The Yakima Kid]

This may be true. I am guessing it would take an experienced eye to be able to determine the difference.

So the California Gray and the Barred Leghorn are the same general weight and size? I do not understand why California Gray would be called a dual-purpose breed, then.

Again, I think that would be a problem if someone tried to get the California Gray recognized by the APA.

Given that the APA is irrelevant to practical poultry raising or commercial raising, the question isn't one of pressing concern. The APA focuses on appearances; the poultrymen focus on utility.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

OK, I added California Gray. It seems he started in 1908. So the breed should really be called Oregon Grays, but he didn't start his commercial operation until he moved to California.

I have read about California Grays before. I know they are supposed to be dual-purpose chickens, but everything I see shows them to be the same size as Leghorns.

This website states for California Grays, "Weight: Female-4.5 lb. Male-5.5 lb. "

http://www.strombergschickens.com/product/California-Grey-Chicks/Chickens-Chicks

Leghorns are 6 pounds for roosters and 4 1/2 pounds for hens.

As I said, I can't see any difference between California Grays and Barred Leghorns, and I think that is why the California Gray was not accepted by the APA.

Maybe California Grays are smaller today than they were in the 1930s. I don't know.

In the era before widespread refrigeration, a smaller, more quickly consumed carcass was an advantage.

Overall weight is of less importance in this case than meat to refuse (bone, offal, etc.) California Grays were intended to have the higher meat to refuse ratio of the Barred Rock. Leghorns have a higher ratio of refuse.

 

[gjensen]

It seams that whenever you go into the depths of this stuff, you end up with a basket full of speculation and opinions. Very little facts.

I have not heard any solid facts lately.

For example, Americans preferring white eggs. Some did. Some did not. It seamed to vary regionally.

Dominiques not being "distinctly American"?

Keep in mind that these assumed preferences were more practical than we might assume. I do not think that it is a coincidence that Americans being largely European came to prefer yellow skin. We grow a lot of corn here. In Europe wheat was more important, and the climate is not as suitable to corn. I think the skin/available feed is a connection. We like what we grow accustomed to.
But of course this is just opinion.

All of them have their roots in Asia regardless what route they took or when they took it. I think everyone can agrees on that point.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

It seams that whenever you go into the depths of this stuff, you end up with a basket full of speculation and opinions. Very little facts.

I have not heard any solid facts lately.

For example, Americans preferring white eggs. Some did. Some did not. It seamed to vary regionally.

Dominiques not being "distinctly American"?

Keep in mind that these assumed preferences were more practical than we might assume. I do not think that it is a coincidence that Americans being largely European came to prefer yellow skin. We grow a lot of corn here. In Europe wheat was more important, and the climate is not as suitable to corn. I think the skin/available feed is a connection. We like what we grow accustomed to.
But of course this is just opinion.

All of them have their roots in Asia regardless what route they took or when they took it. I think everyone can agrees on that point.

The market prices offered for different colors of eggs in the early 20th C varied significantly; only in New England were brown eggs preferred over white, and there on the assumption that brown eggs were local, and therefore fresher.

 

[NJNick]

Hello
I am new to this group. But have been on this site for some time.
I will say from my research on the net. That the Java was the first chicken to be introduced to America. And the Dominique was second.
And these 2 were crossed some way to make the Barred Rock. And this is just what I am going by. And that has been just a little research. And what I can remember.
Also I believe. I read that the R I Red was indeed bred from the Red Maylay.
Do not take this as me knowing for sure. And is just my opinion. On what I have heard and seen.

 

[Bullitt]

Hello
I am new to this group. But have been on this site for some time.
I will say from my research on the net. That the Java was the first chicken to be introduced to America. And the Dominique was second.
And these 2 were crossed some way to make the Barred Rock. And this is just what I am going by. And that has been just a little research. And what I can remember.
Also I believe. I read that the R I Red was indeed bred from the Red Maylay.
Do not take this as me knowing for sure. And is just my opinion. On what I have heard and seen.

Can you provide a source or a link about Java being the first American breed? I have never read this before and I have been reading a lot about chicken breeds.

 

[Bullitt]

All of them have their roots in Asia regardless what route they took or when they took it. I think everyone can agrees on that point.

Of course all chickens have their roots in Asia. That is a fact.

 

[Bullitt]

Given that the APA is irrelevant to practical poultry raising or commercial raising, the question isn't one of pressing concern. The APA focuses on appearances; the poultrymen focus on utility.

That is not my point. Any breed has to have standards, whether it is accepted by the APA or not.

Is the California Gray basically the same size as the Leghorn? I do not understand why it is called a dual-purpose breed when the Leghorn is not.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

That is not my point. Any breed has to have standards, whether it is accepted by the APA or not.

Is the California Gray basically the same size as the Leghorn? I do not understand why it is called a dual-purpose breed when the Leghorn is not.

Let me try this again. Overall weight is only one factor in whether or not a bird is considered suitable as a meat bird. Breeds and individual birds vary greatly in the proportion of live weight that is edible. A Leghorn has a greater percentage of its weight in the refuse portion of the carcass than does a California Gray. The weight of bone, offal, and other items must be subtracted from the live weight in order to determine the usable meat on a carcass. California Grays are closer to Plymouth Rocks in usable carcass portion than they are to Leghorns. There is also the matter of the type of meat, and its qualities and textures and distribution. This goes back to the point I made about subtle differences in conformation. By the early 20th Century, researchers had confirmed that Leghorn cockerels should be dispatched as young broilers due to the diminishing returns as they aged; their distribution of meat an percentage of weight made fattening them as roasters undesirable.

For example, a table done by a university student studying for his graduate degree at Cornell in the early 20th C found that a Plymouth Rock carcass provided 74% edible meat, while a Leghorn provided only 66%.

A study involving Desi, RIR, and White Leghorn cockerels done in India and published in the early 1950s found that : (Desi are an Indian fowl.)

~Therefore, as table poultry, the White Leghorn cockerels are inferior to Rhode Island Red or desi cockerels and occasion considerable reductions in returns. The percentage of edible viscera (heart, liver and gizzard) decreased, in general, with increase of live weight in all the three breeds. The percentages of edible meat in drawn (eviscerated) cockerels were highest in desi and lowest in White Leghorn cockerels at every stage of growth. The amount of breast meat in desi cockerels was more than in Rhode Island Red or White Leghorn cockerels. The percentage of breast meat in Rhode Island Red and White Leghorn cockerels did not show any significant differences. The percentages of leg meat (thigh and drum stick) in both Rhode Island Red and desi cockerels were more than in White Leghorn cockerels. There were, however, no significant differences in the percentages of leg meat in the Rhode Island Red and desi birds. As the birds for table should have a high proprotion of meat to bone

The Indian study went on to conclude:

~The determination of the percentage of edible flesh in the Rhode Island Red, White Leghorn and desi (indigenous) cockerels at 8, 12, 16, 20 and 24 weeks of age respectively revealed that the percentage of total edible meat was highest in the desi and lowest in the White Leghorn cockerels at all the stages of growth. The percentage of breast meat also was higher in the desi than in the Rhode Island Red or White Leghorn cockerels. As regards efficiency, the three breeds ranged themselves in the following descending order : The desi, Rhode Island Red and White Leghorn. The conformation of the dressed desi, Rhode Island Red and White Leghorn cockerels were classed as fully fleshed, fairly well fleshed and poorly fleshed grades respectively. REFERENCE

 

[Bullitt]

It seems you are talking about something different than I am.

What are the standards for the California Gray? How much does a hen weigh on average? How much does a rooster weigh on average?