Livestock guardian dogs

[islandgirl82]

I grew up with Great Pyrenees and Newfoundlands. I currently have a Newfoundland and though he's a working dog, he's not an LGD but he's well worth his weight in gold. He's a house dog...or more a constant-by-my-side dog and I'm his #1 priority but the flock reaps the benefits of his gentle yet protective nature. He won't hesitate to chase off the neighbors dogs when they get a little too rambunctious around me, my children, cat or chickens. He patrols the property line, marking his territory along the way and will occasionally venture beyond the line when the neighbors call him over for a visit or to encourage him to chase the Canada geese off their lawns. He even scared the dickens out of a black bear that was rummaging through my compost. That was well over a year ago and there have been zero signs of any bear, fox, coon, skunk, etc. sightings since and that's with a Nature Preserve right across the road.

This is his individual nature though. I've had other newfies that would tear an animal to shreds, whether a raccoon, cat or anything else for that matter...they killed well over their fair share of porcupines, leaving them on our doorstep and spiking the vet bills through the roof. We never would have been able to keep any livestock other than my horses and donkey with them around and even so, they'd been kicked by the horses more than a few times when they would get out and give chase in the pastures. They would have been great for water rescue but no matter how much we worked with them, their prey drives were far too high to stick around as even halfway decent farm dogs so they were placed in far more suitable homes.

 

[centrarchid]

For a typical flock, half a dozen birds, sure, if you are looking at dollars and cents. It is a personal choice though and some don't look at every cent spent. If they were, they likely wouldn't be raising chickens in the first place. Most have them for enjoyment and good quality eggs. Most would love to give their birds the ability to free range and if you live in the right area an LGD can make that possible. One can always find cheaper quality food, take the dog to the shot clinics (much cheaper), and do your own worming, etc.
Most don't have the ability to put up electric fencing, or even hardwire cloth fencing. You mention fire hazard, another thing to consider when electrifying a fence. An electric fence wouldn't work where I'm at for several reasons and I'm not willing to fence three acres like a fortress with hardwire cloth. I'm not protecting a half dozen birds, but several dozen and birds that cost me, initially, a pretty penny. They are my hobby, not an income producer. Because of my choice, my girls can free range all they want, saving me $ in feed. My dog is well worth her small expense and because of her I can go out at night and not worry about me being surprised by a bear, bobcat, coyote, etc. She is always on guard or has an eye or ear open around here. She works even when a fence isn't. She didn't cost hundreds of dollars, doesn't eat much at all, and I have had no major medical problems with her. I spend more on the chickens than I ever spent on her total. For me, and I'm sure others, an LGD is the better option, because the fence would be the waste of money. Meaning, it would likely be shorted out often around here, not give me the ability to free range and bite my grandkids when they get near. Don't much feel like driving post in rock either. Nope, not for me.
And I sure wouldn't want to wait for a bird dog to tire of chasing the birds. Could lose your whole flock before it tires. If you already have the dog before the flock, sure, make the effort to train it. If not, and you are looking for a guardian dog, get an appropriate breed.
'

I need to show how I fence about 5 acres of my total of 18, Entire cost was less than initial cost of one dog or three years maintenance of same dog. I keep two dogs and do the fencing plus have well over a hundred birds much of the year but never drop below about 70. The dogs cost the most, followed by chickens and then fencing is a distant third. Fencing is easy to keep operational.

For many if not most folks, the fencing contains their dogs dogs and keeps other out. Pattern certainly operates for most owners of LGD's. Fencing contains only my young American Dominiques; with other birds containment realized by other means where I strive merely to keep birds wanting to stay where I want them.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Look here:

http://maine.craigslist.org/pet/4748910797.html


Not sure how far you are from here or what rules apply in transporting across the border. These being a year old and maybe not around livestock would probably require some extra effort in training. Pyrenees are protective because of a deep maternal instinct bred into them. What they consider the "pack", they will protect. So, the trick is making them aware of who is part of the "pack". I kept mine housed near the flock but she didn't have access to the flock. I kept her on a very short leash when I brought her in the pens. Corrected any excitment she would display immediately. I held birds when introducing her to flock. I worked with her daily for a few weeks before trusting her without a leash. Taught her commands during this time. I never let her in the pen without a leash though. Mine was young though, not an older dog, that's why I say it could take more time. On the plus side, an older dog may be out of much of that puppy play you have to watch out for.

I've read that the best way to start with a puppy or really young dog is with an older dog that already knows the job and the older dog teaches the young one. I also read a lot that the larger and lgd breeds don't fully mature until around 2 years of age. I'd be worried starting with a puppy: the foxes found me, the coons found me, what happens when the coyotes finally do? I'd be worried that a puppy would become prey. I realize that risk exists with an older dog as well, but an older dog that's mature and fully grown would have a much better chance. Pyrs and various crosses are available in my province for $300-$600/pup; I almost bought a pyr/Belgian shepherd cross until I read about the maturation time etc. I also worry a bit about the wandering tendencies the lgd breeds supposedly have; many people here and sites such as dogbreedinfo.com say they require lots and lots of land. On the other hand, I've read a few people here are successful with them on just an acre or two. Must be a luck of the draw thing with them, maybe? Anyway, the girl I'm getting seems to be exactly what I need. I wasn't going to answer the ad at first because of how far away she is and because it had no photo, but one line in it intrigued me "loves to chase squirrels and quail, but when the opportunity is there she won't harm them". Right away I thought, must be a herding breed! And then to find out that she doesn't need fencing - awesome! I think getting her to work with the chickens won't be too difficult; if she can keep them out of the neighbours' yards, too - bonus! I'll see if I can figure out how to post the photo the lady emailed me - pretty sure she's collie/shepherd

 

[Phoenixxx]

 

[Phoenixxx]

Do you have the resources for a Newfoundland Dog? Should handle your climate just fine and very large. Not dog aggressive as typically desired in in LGD's but presence alone will keep most wild predators away. Dog may need a little training to promote kill interest in critters like a raccoon which will be tough unless bad guys come often.. If raccoons are your biggest headache the smaller but climate tolerant breeds also an option. If you have the coyote-wolf hybrid up your way then dogs will not be your most cost effective option to protect birds.


When it come to raccoons there are other approaches you do not appear to have considered that will keep them at bay. Part of that takes advantage of the chickens natural roosting behavior.

Yes, I was considering newfs among my options. I don't think the coywolf has made it to nova Scotia yet, or at least not down south shore where I am. I did watch David Suzuki's show on them so I know what they're about. Doggy won't be sleeping outside at nights, though; I lock the kiddies (chickens) up at bedtime now. (I used to leave the little door open nights so they could get out in the morning which was fine for the first couple years.) Maybe in the summertime I'll have her out nights, too, but certainly not right away.

 

[centrarchid]

I've read that the best way to start with a puppy or really young dog is with an older dog that already knows the job and the older dog teaches the young one. I also read a lot that the larger and lgd breeds don't fully mature until around 2 years of age. I'd be worried starting with a puppy: the foxes found me, the coons found me, what happens when the coyotes finally do? I'd be worried that a puppy would become prey. I realize that risk exists with an older dog as well, but an older dog that's mature and fully grown would have a much better chance. Pyrs and various crosses are available in my province for $300-$600/pup; I almost bought a pyr/Belgian shepherd cross until I read about the maturation time etc. I also worry a bit about the wandering tendencies the lgd breeds supposedly have; many people here and sites such as dogbreedinfo.com say they require lots and lots of land. On the other hand, I've read a few people here are successful with them on just an acre or two. Must be a luck of the draw thing with them, maybe? Anyway, the girl I'm getting seems to be exactly what I need. I wasn't going to answer the ad at first because of how far away she is and because it had no photo, but one line in it intrigued me "loves to chase squirrels and quail, but when the opportunity is there she won't harm them". Right away I thought, must be a herding breed! And then to find out that she doesn't need fencing - awesome! I think getting her to work with the chickens won't be too difficult; if she can keep them out of the neighbours' yards, too - bonus! I'll see if I can figure out how to post the photo the lady emailed me - pretty sure she's collie/shepherd

All dogs with possible exception of beagles and the like require 2 years to mature mentally.

 

[dennisinohio]

Where can I find someone to come train me and my dog care for chickens and not round up the cows except when I tell him to. One year old mixed border collie.

 

[chrism]

I find great pry not fierce enough, anything that has been used as show dog or being bred as pets i just wont use. I prefer dogs that nothing but working dogs in their backround. With a good dog I expect to not lose 1 hen or anything. Also they should be able to dispatch predators without hurting themselves so we dont have to take them to the vet which will make it more expensive. Their kills should be clean and quick. A heeler or whatever else dog catches a coyote there is going to be some nasty nasty bites alll over your dog. WIth a good LGD you should not have that issue. Also they aren't family pets id expect them to live with the animals 24/7 not just sometimes.

The good thing about komadors they have this thick fur that protects them from predator bites. So if a coon or something attacks them back they are well protected.





remember tho never pet lines always working lines never show lines

Great advice but this breed is found in the show and obedience rings pretty regularly.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

we have a young akbash. Love this breed.
she's 5 months old now. younger in this pic
she will hopefully one day help protect the San Clemente Island Goats ( most our birds are in large runs )

 

[Hangtown Farms]

here is a picture of her today
she is only with the goats on supervised visits still. otherwise she's in the fenced pasture next to them