Looking for advice from dog trainers/ behaviorists pretty please

[lemurchaser]

I would start with a "Nothing in Life is Free" program. Basically everything he wants in life, he earns with good behavior. So he wants his dinner, "sit" if he listens he gets his bowl, if he doesn't you set the bowl back on the counter and he can wait 5-10 minutes before getting another chance. Even better, have him earn his food kibble by kibble (or handful by handful if you're in a hurry). He wants attention he has to sit first or he's ignored, he wants to go for a walk means a couple tricks first, he wants to go outside/car ride/have a cookie/ get on the couch/ come in the house etc he does something first. There is no punishment for not listening except he doesn't get what he wants.

I've used this for both pushy dominant dogs and scared insecure dogs and it can really make a difference.

I would also stop letting him sleep anywhere except his dog bed, and when you want to give him attention call him to you. You want to avoid putting him in a situation where he will growl until he learns better manners.

Teach him "go to your bed" and make it fun. My dogs will run and leap on their beds. Send him to his bed as needed or for time outs. Sit on his bed and call him to you, make it fun. My dogs get sent to their beds for rowdy or out of control behaviors or for misbehaving in general. They get a 1 minute time out and then are calmly released from it (no praise). If they can't calm down enough to go to their beds then they get a time out either tied to a door handle or in a crate (the worst punishment possible for my one dog, who loves her crate otherwise). In other words make his sleeping spot under your control.

The dog to dog interactions, I can't really help with. My male pit mix is that way too. He'd just rather not have rude dogs up in his face. So we don't go places that will happen.

 

[JustAChickenLittle&More]

I would take him to the vet and explain everything you told us. Sounds like he might have an anxiety problem. I know it sounds crazy, but they do give dogs like that prozac and it tends to help them. I know he has never bitten or snapped at you, but there is always a first time and unfortunately, growling is a precurser to bitting or snapping. So you do need to nip it in the butt. In the meantime I would just say the word "no" very sharply when he growls at you. You do have to remain the head of the pecking order with him regardless of his insecurity issues. Keep us posted. He is a beautiful dog.

 

[aubreynoramarie]

Quote:
my previous post explains that i do everything you just wrote already

thanks, i have taken him to the vets because of this just to rule out that he isnt in any pain or that he doesnt have any underlying medical issues...but ill talk to them about anxiety too. i had a cat who had to be on prozac because she would chew on her skin, so maybe it could help?

 

[AuroraSprings]

How much confidence-building do you do? You said you already do the NILF-method, so hopefully if you throw in confidence-building it will help. My APBT is the same way with dogs outside our house. Honestly, it's just LOOSE, SPASTIC dogs. Ever since he was attacked by a lab/sharpei mix, he's decided "I should eat them before they eat me". It's ridiculous and I feel horrible, because typically in a quiet environment he would LOVE 90% of the dogs he meets. Structure, a predictable schedule, and confidence -building are the only things I've found that helps. I've done the "Casear roll" on him. After an hour and a half of him and I on the ground, while we're both shaking from exhaustion, the loose dog got bored and Cuervo was able to take a few deep breaths (good enough for me at that point!) I've yet to see the alpha roll work with the bully breeds I've had, but I know it does on some. Works pretty well on our Siberian Husky- she rolls and begs for mercy, then she's released and jumps up as if nothing happened.

 

[AuroraSprings]

Oh also, you may want to ask around on here: http://www.pitbullforum.com/index.php

They are basically THE place to go for everything to do with all bully breeds. Thousands of knowledgeable owners/trainers/rescuers/behaviorists are on there and willing to help if you're willing to listen. Pre-warning: They are SUPER rescue-oriented. So if you breed BTs, keep it to yourself (unless of course, you do it ethically). They are super strict about not allowing backyard breeders on the site, because of all the damage they've done to the APBT breed.

 

[aubreynoramarie]

Quote:
cool thanks for the advice!
Nah i dont breed. he was fixed early on as a request from one of the trainers...testosterone thing ya know. what do you mean by nilf method? and what kind of confidence building excersises do you do? Its a good idea to check a pit bull site. Even though hes not a pit, the bull breeds can be very different than other dogs and alot of people dont understand that

 

[Junkmanme]

I do not think that "advice" regarding dogs is always "appropriate" for any particular "breed" of dog.

The different breeds have different ways, tendencies, predispositions, or call-it-what-you-may.

I have had MANY Boxers in my Life. (So, I KNOW about boxers....and I also know that individuals within a breed also vary).

My late wife raised many, many, Wolf-Hybrids.

The psychology, training, and predispositions are CONSIDERABLY DIFFERENT between these two Breeds.

What would work for Boxers would be the WORST THING to do with a Wolf-Hybrid !!!

AND...to treat a Boxer like a Wolf-Hybrid would also be disasterous.

STUDY YOUR BREED ! They have their own ways.

Don't accept these "One-fits-ALL" pieces of advice.

It just ain't so.

-Junkmanme-

 

[spiritdance]

Been there, done this ... only mine was a Jack Russell. Anyway, here's what worked with him, and why, a la the trainer that helped me with him. The thing about anxiety in dogs is it's only one step removed from dominance aggression. So the problem is how to stem the "aggession" part of the behavior - the growling - without exacerbating the insecurity that underlies the anxiety, and as one poster on here noted, insecurity arises from an unclear "alpha" relationship. While you may be clearly in control MOST of the time, the continuance of this behavior represents a gap in your alpha role. You need to fill that gap WITHOUT pushing the dog into dominance aggression. What we did was use a command to DIVERT the behavior and demonstrate our authority in a NONPHYSICAL WAY. To begin, we went back to Mickey's obedience training and focused on a very simple command - "come here." At first, it seemed as if we were taking a step back because we began offering a reward every time he obeyed (I like using Biljack treats because they are small, don't destroy the dog's diet, and are gone so quick that the idea of "treat equals good" is reinforced more than the dog's taste is titillated). Anyway, once Mickey was practically giving himself whiplash to respond to "come here" even in the midst of playing, eating, whatever ... we started using it to divert his bad behavior. The instant he began the slightest little growl, or flattened his ears at another dog, he got the "come here" command. The first few times, we had to repeat the command several times, firmly but calmly and without advancing or retreating, but he responded. He got his treat - a reward for a GOOD behavior the WE were in control of - and then we went on as though nothing had happened. We had to do this consistently for about a month (but we replaced the treats with pets and praise after about a week), but lo and behold, one day Mickey began to growl at my husband for approaching him from behind (one of his "pet peeves" before) and Mickey stopped almost instantly, flicked his ears back and forth a few times, then got up, trotted over to my husband and sat down in front of him, looking up expectantly for his praise and petting. Now, we still have those moments when he's tempted to slip, but a simple "come here" ends it without conflict, and we can even take him to the park without worrying about other dogs setting him off. Granted, a Bullie is natured differently than a Jack Russell, but both of them are strong personality types, so since it worked with Mickey it may work with yours. And the beauty of it is that all you're really doing is reinforcing already learned behavior - no risk of triggering more aggression and no terrifying the dog with overtly physical moves (flipping him on his back, etc.). You're going after the dog's MENTAL state, which is where the aggression/anxiety originates. By showing him that you are in control --- it doesn't matter HOW --- you reassure him that his "pack" is safely in the "paws" of a good leader, and therefore HE is safe and can let his guard down. Anyway, hope it helps ... i

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
Ok I hope can actually help you, from what you've said you've talked to a lot of people. I have read this over several times to get afeel for what you have said, as well as read your responses on this thread.

I don't know what other trainers/behaviorists have told you. But from your comments you know your dog is fearful and exceptionally insecure. Sounds to me like a Genetic Predisposition for the issues since he displayed them so young. I have trained or co-trained several Bull Terriers. Some had fabulous temperaments and others were just as you describe your dog.

I highlighted these comments above to point out a few things for you. First what your "trainer/behaviorist" was trying to do may or may NOT have been appropriate. I would take issue with a trainer doing this with a 3 month old puppy most of the time, however there are always exceptions. What I can tell you is this: When he was fighting with her, and she wasn't allowed to follow the psychological fight to the conclusion, that is what sealed his behavior. It was traumatic for him to be sure, but moreso than the act itself was that you rescued him and he was in the fight of his life and found that fear and fighting a person or adversary was how he got out of something so very scary to him. That was more damaging than allowing her to fight with him in that way.

I am not trying to be mean to you, I am just giving you my honest opinion. I would say that this trainer didn't prepare you for what she was going to do first? I have had to bring dogs down like this before, and have gotten bitten many times. But I ALWAYS ALWAYS prepare the owner first. And have actually told them in the middle of the evaluation "if you are going to cry go in the other room and watch from there, but do NOT allow your emotions to influence your dog at this time". These are extreme cases but I have had to say this more than once. No one should have to watch and listen to a dog put up a fight like this if they aren't prepared to do so.

Your dog's biggest moment of fight/flight and you ended it before the dog could give up. That taught him that if he's aggressive or fearful enough he can use those reactions to maintain control of the situation. I doubt this was the "right" time for your dog to deal with such a confrontation, it MAY have needed to come later after making sure the dog could recover from it with some supportive training and also behavior modification.

Right now you need to look into some behavior modification. This is training, but its not obedience training. Its training your dog to be more confident and teaching YOU to see what your dog is saying before he becomes reactive.

You can teach this with positive reinforcement, but it will take a HUGE committement and a LONG time to do properly.

Is he food motivated and do you have a clicker? If you say yes then you are ready to start. If you want me to go step by step with you I can. Just let me know if you want more information, I am not going to start out now because I don't want to type for an hour before I know you're interested.

 

[welsummerchicks]

When the dog growls at you, you don't want the dog to growl, you punish the dog for growling.

I don't agree with jamie that with all dogs, that everything is going to disappear, even dog aggression, without ever making a single firm correction, totally with treats, even over a long period of time. I'd say that the majority of the training will be pretty upbeat.

I don't like to use a shaker can with a nervous, dominant type of dog. Chain collar correction for them, redirection, anything but a sound correction.

It's kind of too bad you didn't let the guy hold him on his back and settle him when he was a pup. That's how they learn, I agree with jamie. Otherwise they never quite get that they aren't the center of the universe. Sounds like he got taken from his mama when he was really young too. That tends to cause a lot of bad behavior.

Too, I have to say, the relationship you have with the dog, it doesn't sound righ. You make so many excuses - 'he's SOOOO much better now, it only happens once in a while', he GROWLS at you, kiddo, this is serious...and dog aggression, 'let's just not discuss that', that and you snatched him away from the first trainer...so even early on, very overprotective, more like he's your baby than your dog.

Some dogs are harder than others, jamies' 'genetic predisposition'. The breed has been bred to be very sharp and dominant(especially with other dogs). I think it says one article on the breed, 'their owner better be more courageous than they are', or something like that, also that they tend to be stubborn and very, very tenacious.

I think to get at the problems, you need to change how you think of this dog. No more excuses, no more my baby. Face what's going on, all of it. It's all very serious. Then it's usually possible to change habits, even, to change them very quickly. A dog has very flexible behavior, usually, often more flexible than a human's

I would not want dog to be afraid of objects, even if it worked in my favor, because it raises their general level of tension. I feel that is very wrong. I would put him on a leash, gradually desensitize and reward him.

Then, if you don't want him to be somewhere, put him in a dog crate. Going in a crate also calms them down, and he sounds like he really needs to have less tension.

Keep in mind, being so bossy is largely what makes dogs nervous. You stop letting them be bossy - growling, getting aggressive to other dogs, and they stop being so nervous. Being so bossy involves a lot of stress. Again, something he does not need.

Think about it. Who is the most nervous person you know? Well, for me, it's the person who has to handle the most money, the most decisions, the most kids, lol. Too much to boss over. Worry, worry, worry. That causes stress. Give him a simpler job and he will calm down. Being in charge of everything is stressful.

It sounds like just a dog that is generally nervous, a little pushy. If he's growling, he's growling, that's not allowed, he needs to chin up and not do it. End of discussion. If your older brother hits you with a baseball bat, you don't say, 'oh, poor dear, he was nervous just then, that's why he did that'.

I would not have a 'firm calm' little old conversation with him. He needs to know it's wrong. Clearly.

If you are asking, 'what should I do', no one here can tell you what is the right punishment, it has to be geared to how the dog is acting, and reacting, right then. Someone that can see you and the dog and what's happening moment to moment, can help you learn to 'read' the dog.

A dog trainer.

The dog aggression is a serious, serious problem. If your dog attacks another dog, you can wind up, in most states, being required to euthenize him. If it comes down to that, no one is going to listen to you saying, 'well, you see, he is very insecure and fearful, that's why he ate that chihuaha'. This has to be fixed before a tragedy happens.

To be honest, it is very, very UNlikely that you are going to fix this by saying, 'no, no, precious dearest'.

I would not take it to a dog 'behaviorist', not because there aren't some really good ones around, there are. But there is no way to tell if you found a good one or a bad one til it's too late. It's hard to find a good one.

A dog trainer once told me, 'If someone tells me they're a 'dog behaviorist', I run screaming in the other direction, as fast as I can'. It's kind of a problem, again, not because there are no good ones, but because it is so hard to find which ones are good. ANYONE can say they are a 'dog behaviorist'. There is no test, license, competition, nothing.

I'd suggest you go to a dog training class, with a really good instructor(not petsmart, someone who has their own dog obedience/training school and has been around for many, many years and worked with thousands of dogs), and before you sign up for the class, ask if they can help with dog aggression or not.