Looking for advice on a heritage meat bird

[disciple1126]

I had someone tell me today to put buttermilk on their feed.....I would just use some scratch feed/cracked corn to help fatten them up....but that may heat them up a bit too much during the summer months. The info on the feed says its only 18% protein. I would think you would need 20-22%

 

[BeaverQB]

Hmm, I wonder if maybe milk added to their feed would get me the extra 2-4%? I just think it would be gross if the milk spoiled sitting out if they didn't eat it all. I wouldn't want to make them sick -- but maybe they don't care?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Any time you feed them wet feed you need to ration it so they clean it up before it spoils. You don’t want it going moldy, so you have to manage that. Give them a limited amount and when that is cleaned up either give them some more or switch to dry feed for the rest of the day.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

I just use 20% protein feed. Cockerels at 12-14 weeks are grill worthy and almost 3 lbs dressed. To me it's the perfect time for culling unwanted cockerels. After this age they toughen up and can't be grilled, this is also the time right before their molt to adult plumage. They will not grow during this molt, too much energy is spent on new feathers. That 2.5 to 3 lbs size is perfect to split in half for grill. Cut spine and breast bone to halve chicken.

Sometimes I'm not in the mood to butcher so 12 weeks is not a strict schedule for me. When I must butcher if haven't done so yet is when I start to see feathers in the coop. They are starting that molt so it's time to buckle down and do the deed. Otherwise your feeding for feathers, then need to wait for growth so butchering at 20+ weeks for a large carcass that is not nearly as tender or feed to meat economical as the 12-14 week birds are.

This year I'm going to use a high protein (looks like 28% turkey starter is what's available) to see what I can get for size at that pre adult plumage molt. Maybe chick starter in brooder then turkey starter once outside to butcher. They pluck far easier prior to that molt too. For added moisture I brine them, 7 oz of table salt per gallon for 20-24 hours. So rest the birds for 2 days then put all in a bucket or caning pot and brine in fridge for another day. Grill up that night or next few days or freeze.

Forgot to say- I raise standard bred Plymouth Rocks. Heritage birds if you will.

 

[disciple1126]

I just use 20% protein feed. Cockerels at 12-14 weeks are grill worthy and almost 3 lbs dressed. To me it's the perfect time for culling unwanted cockerels. After this age they toughen up and can't be grilled, this is also the time right before their molt to adult plumage. They will not grow during this molt, too much energy is spent on new feathers. That 2.5 lbs size is perfect to split in half for grill. Cut spine and breast bone to halve chicken.

Sometimes I'm not in the mood to butcher so 12 weeks is not a strict schedule for me. When I must butcher if haven't done so yet is when I start to see feathers in the coop. They are starting that molt so it's time to buckle down and do the deed. Otherwise your feeding for feathers, then need to wait for growth so butchering at 20+ weeks for a large carcass that is not nearly as tender or feed to meat economical as the 12-14 week birds are.

This year I'm going to use a high protein (looks like 28% turkey starter is what's available) to see what I can get for size at that pre adult plumage molt. Maybe chick starter in brooder then turkey starter once outside to butcher. They pluck far easier prior to that molt too. For added moisture I brine them, 7 oz of table salt per gallon for 20-24 hours. So rest the birds for 2 days then put all in a bucket or caning pot and brine in fridge for another day. Grill up that night or next few days or freeze.

Forgot to say- I raise standard bred Plymouth Rocks. Heritage birds if you will.

I haven't raised any for meat yet but I've been wondering about using a turkey starter to get em fatter. Any particular Plymouth Rock that you use? Have you tried Black Giants or New Hamps?

Hmm, I wonder if maybe milk added to their feed would get me the extra 2-4%? I just think it would be gross if the milk spoiled sitting out if they didn't eat it all. I wouldn't want to make them sick -- but maybe they don't care?

I think I would buy some alfalfa and let them eat on that for the extra protein

 

[Egghead_Jr]

I was just talking about that on another thread. If inclined for a meat bird I'd email people and find recorded live weights of a few lines. New Hampshire were very fast growers back in the day and why they were crossed with White Rocks for making broilers. The sports of that crossing was bred together to make the Delaware. Now there are Reese New Hampshire and there are the relatively new to U.S. German New Hampshire and there are some Delaware lines and there is Delaware the Kathy (here on BYC) recently made from Reese New Hampshire and Plymouth Rock. That's 4 lines to look into and try to find good evidence of growth rate. Historically those two breeds are the fast mature though don't get as large as other birds as adults. But we want birds of size at 12-14 weeks and these were the breeds for that. There is record of New Hampshire back in the mid 20th Century that reach 4 lbs dressed in 12 weeks. That's a great dual purpose bird. Find the present day line that kept that kind of fast maturing genetics. Get eggs from the line that matures the best early. It would take reading Kathy's Delawares thread, German New Hampshire thread and findig folks that raise Reese New Hampshire or just email Kathy and ask her as she had that line. Then a Delaware thread. If it's not posted ask. Real numbers matter. More people should report live weights to show growth curve of different lines.

There is a chance that that trait is basically bred out at this late date in their history. For a dual purpose bird I'd also look into White Rocks. I don't raise those but it's common knowledge that all other varieties of Plymouth Rock pale in utility value to the Whites. Find some real live weights at different ages from them too. They may prove to be the top runner after all that research.

Forgot to add that Jersey Giants are a poor choice for meat bird. They get huge but are very slow to mature. To get that massive size the lankier cockerels are actually what grow into the breeders. It's an oddity breed that was made about the time saving all breeds came into vogue. It was a breed that if made a few decades earlier would have died off in obscurity. The venture was to make a small turkey sized chicken that would be cheaper and fill a market niche. It didn't work. It shouldn't have survived as a breed.

As for the variety of Plymouth Rock I'm on now it's more for a pretty dual purpose and not all out utility. The weights I get at 12 weeks are smaller than it's potential as I'm eating the small culls. That said I can say there was two cockerels and one in particular that matured at an alarming rate compared to others. I kept the best and one cockerel of lankier at youth due to other promising traits (ha proper wing set). At this age (9 months) that lankier one is starting to surpass the early fast grower in size. So for utility I want the fast growth BUT this variety is notoriously under sized for the breed. It's a crux. I'll breed both and decide later which direction to go but this will be true with all lines of birds out there. There will be some room for improvement to your own goal. If starting with the best line that suits your goal (yours would be fast growth for early butcher/ meat utility) then working toward it with that line you'll make a great Heritage dual purpose line.

 

[hellbender]

So, I'm fairly new to chickens, but we also have a desire to find a suitable heritage breed meat chicken (rather than raising hybrids like the Cornish X or Freedom Ranger). As the first part of our journey, we raised 20 White Plymouth Rock roosters last year (from McMurray Hatchery). We butchered about half of them at 17 weeks and the rest at 20 weeks. None of them topped 6 pounds live weight, and we averaged a little under 4 pounds dressed weight. Taste was great -- much more flavorful than the store bought, but can be tough if you don't cook it properly.

We're going to try again this year, but we'll run some Light Brahmas, some White Giants, and some White Orpingtons to see if we can get more weight.

You will likely raise more bone than anything else...that's why we caponize almost all cockerels and poulardize a few hens. They can be kept on the 'hoof' for up to and over 18 months with satisfactory results.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

http://japr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/10/25/japr.2013-00843.full

Finnfur directed me to this 2012 study. It's quite interesting and though hatchery stock was used shows promise that that fast maturing (relative to heritage birds) is still out there. If hatchery stock can be over 3.5 lbs dressed in 12 weeks then there must be a line of standard bred that didn't go off track and breed for plumage and adult weight. There must be a line of Delaware that can reach the old stock weights of 4 lbs in 12 weeks still out there. I don't know if it's still out there with the New Hampshire but in reality a white plumage bird will result in prettier table carcass so if reliable source of standard bred birds can be found with high early maturing rate the that really is the bird to use.

This study is interesting but slightly flawed in that it attempted to show growth compared to Cornish X which in itself is a great standard but reported final weights at 15 weeks as that's how long it took the birds to reach live weights of the CornishX at 6 weeks when they were butchered. The fundamental flaw is that no one should expect the same weights so in comparing feed intake to achieve that weight it becomes grossly out of proportion. Birds really start to take in feed at that age. To let a bird grow 3 extra weeks at that higher rate of feed to only produce a pound more in dressed weight skews the data. To say the Delaware consumed double the feed to achieve in 15 weeks what the CornishX did in 6 with half the feed is accurate but a ratio of feed to pounds of meat and butcher time appropriate to optimal feed conversion would serve as better information. Let's face it, 12-13 weeks is the optimal time to butcher a heritage bird. 14 weeks isn't bad but 15 is way past the perfect feed to meat straight line and even past the curve.

Well I have questions of weights out there in several threads. I'll post back if any real numbers are given. What your looking for is 6 lbs live weight at 12-13 weeks. That will provide a 4 lbs carcass. The percentage of carcass to live weight goes down the smaller the bird is so keep that in mind.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t weigh mine and prefer to wait until they are at least 18 weeks to butcher, low 20’s even better, but I don’t grill or fry. They mature at different weights too. With my freezer space, cooking methods, and management techniques this works best for me. Before 18 weeks I find them to be mostly bone.

I once saw an advertisement for Delaware chicks from the 1930’s, back when the Delaware was one of the commercial meat birds. The ad said their chicks could reach 4 pounds weight (I assume live weight, not sure, it did not say) at 10 weeks. Back when they were bred to be meat birds 4 pounds at 10 weeks was something to brag about. Maybe that would be an interesting data point.

I don’t worry about breed. I got different breeds and kept the chickens that best met my goals, so now I have my own line of barnyard mutts that works well for what I want. I’m sure my goals are different than yours but you might want to consider that. As long as you don’t plan to show them there is nothing wrong with developing your own line for what you want and don’t worry about breeding to the SOP. But the better stock you have to start with the easier it is to get where you are going.

 

[BeaverQB]

You will likely raise more bone than anything else...that's why we caponize almost all cockerels and poulardize a few hens. They can be kept on the 'hoof' for up to and over 18 months with satisfactory results.

We'd like to avoid caponizing. We'll see what happens -- we're naive and adventurous, so perhaps we're being foolish, but that's fine with us. It's a fun adventure, and who knows, maybe we'll find a breed that works for us!