LOS ANGELES county CA under bird quarantine :(

[Kathy Golla]

@Animalfisherwoman @BreanneRN aphis site shows very little spread recently.
Where are you still seeing spread discrepancies?
The CDFA recent or total detections map seems to be showing a spread of more than one case a week?
If so, what is our recourse in requesting the data be synced up for the public?
It seems to me...the feds reporting the actual positive cases should be the single source of truth (?)
Thoughts?

 

[Kathy Golla]

I guess I wonder if the same activities that occurred at Kerris place are continuing elsewhere. If so, is there additional video?

As for cats and dogs this kind of action isn't generally taken because they are usually vaccinated and there is no commercial dog industry that diseased animals can disrupt. Also cats and dogs are classified as domestic pets, not livestock as poultry are.

But let's take rabies for example because it is a fatal disease in almost every case. It has a wild vector in raccoons, bats, coyotes, foxes,etc. You are legally obligated to vaccinate your dog against rabies.

If your vaccinated dog bites someone he will be quarantined without question for at least 10 days and observed for symptoms. Most likely he is fine and you will just have to deal with other issues with the dog bite victim.

But let's say you don't have him vaccinated. Maybe you don't believe in dog vaccines like human measles anti-vaxers or you are just lazy and irresponsible. It happens. You are in violation of the law, but so what? And you let him run loose and he bites someone. No 10 day quarantine here. He will be euthanized and his head sent to UC Davis for a rabies test. Yesterday if possible. Because dogs can be motivated to bite due to rabies infection and no one is going to let that go since rabies is almost 100% fatal. Most likely he did not have rabies.

The treatment for rabies exposure is long, painful and very expensive.
So who is going to demonstrate to save a dog that bites people and carries the possibility of spreading a disease that is fatal to humans? Most people seem to understand that in adopting a domestic pet we have a responsibility to them and society not to spread diseases to everyone else's domestic pet or humans.

Another example of owner responsibility is the Coggins test for horses. My horses can stay at their same barn for their whole lives pretty much without being tested for Coggins disease. But if we want to take them from one state to another they need to show they are negative for Coggins disease. We moved three horses from California to Oregon but only after they tested negative. This was in January. We live so close to Washington state we can almost see it from here but our horses can't go there without another valid negative Coggins test. My husband missed an event he wanted to go to because the vet wasn't able to come out in time. Should we demonstrate and demand our responsibility to our horses and everyone else's horses be ended because we love our horse like we love our dogs? The consequences of a positive Coggins are either euthanasia or lifelong complete quarantine from other horses.

So. I don't agree at all how Kerri 's livestock were killed based on the video, but I do not in any way disagree with the reason or the concept of accepting responsibility to a greater society when you bring a nonhuman animal into your life.

Mmm I see where you are going here.
Your dog rabies extrapolation is a very broad statement, not entirely true, let’s not scare people, we can debate the nuances offline. But I can respect your point about “herd immunity.”
Livestock and their rights seem to be much lower down the totem pole than domesticated pets, with chickens down at the bottom.
Those with poultry pets ( I am one) have a hard time with the concept that their pet chickens are susceptible to some pretty bad diseases, vaccines are not available, and the livestock industries have a lot of state and fed power. Backyard flocks are taking money out of the commercial industries pockets.
I for one am having to come to terms that if California is not going to protect their citizens rights, are going to protect the economy, are not going to formulate a vaccine, infected birds are always going to come through the border and game birds are a culture in Ca, maybe it’s not the best place to have chickens.

 

[BreanneRN]

@Animalfisherwoman @BreanneRN aphis site shows very little spread recently.
Where are you still seeing spread discrepancies?
The CDFA recent or total detections map seems to be showing a spread of more than one case a week?
If so, what is our recourse in requesting the data be synced up for the public?
It seems to me...the feds reporting the actual positive cases should be the single source of truth (?)
Thoughts?

Well, no disrespect intended, but anytime someone makes a comment that the feds should be used as a single source of truth, i kind of cringe, then hysterically. It seems the state is always having money problems because those who manage it are fiscally incompetent, never putting away for the emergency or the rainy day. When it's time to pay the taxes, though, they don't want to hear about any problems, they just want the money now, or yesterday. Plenty of play money for the slow speed rail, though... Even if they had NO money, they could still have implemented the quarantine sooner and stopped chicken auctions sometime before December, which allowed plenty of poultry to circulate. Those actions would have cost them nothing. And addressed the out of control cockfighting and gambling rings (refused to do that, too). It is as if they wanted it to get worse to guarantee they WOULD get the funding... It is out-of-control now, and I see no progress. And the incompetent, disrespectful workers they have sent to the homes of law-abiding citizens and the pain their sadistic practices have inflicted just about guarantees future lack of cooperation when this happens again (and it will, since it is endemic in Mexico). And their complete lack of knowledge of biohazard techniques and disposal methods means the millions of birds have died for nothing. Eventually, this outbreak of disease will run it's course, possibly because people just quit reporting it, or maybe because there are no more chickens to infect because they are all dead. It is a sad situation and yes, I believe it could have been handled way better. Hoping at least it is a learning experience, but government doesn't care what citizens think until they are hit with a legal stick.

 

[Kathy Golla]

Well, no disrespect intended, but anytime someone makes a comment that the feds should be used as a single source of truth, i kind of cringe, then hysterically. It seems the state is always having money problems because those who manage it are fiscally incompetent, never putting away for the emergency or the rainy day. When it's time to pay the taxes, though, they don't want to hear about any problems, they just want the money now, or yesterday. Plenty of play money for the slow speed rail, though... Even if they had NO money, they could still have implemented the quarantine sooner and stopped chicken auctions sometime before December, which allowed plenty of poultry to circulate. Those actions would have cost them nothing. And addressed the out of control cockfighting and gambling rings (refused to do that, too). It is as if they wanted it to get worse to guarantee they WOULD get the funding... It is out-of-control now, and I see no progress. And the incompetent, disrespectful workers they have sent to the homes of law-abiding citizens and the pain their sadistic practices have inflicted just about guarantees future lack of cooperation when this happens again (and it will, since it is endemic in Mexico). And their complete lack of knowledge of biohazard techniques and disposal methods means the millions of birds have died for nothing. Eventually, this outbreak of disease will run it's course, possibly because people just quit reporting it, or maybe because there are no more chickens to infect because they are all dead. It is a sad situation and yes, I believe it could have been handled way better. Hoping at least it is a learning experience, but government doesn't care what citizens think until they are hit with a legal stick.

LOL!
Perhaps I should have used another term!

 

[Anime2lover]

Well, no disrespect intended, but anytime someone makes a comment that the feds should be used as a single source of truth, i kind of cringe, then hysterically. It seems the state is always having money problems because those who manage it are fiscally incompetent, never putting away for the emergency or the rainy day. When it's time to pay the taxes, though, they don't want to hear about any problems, they just want the money now, or yesterday. Plenty of play money for the slow speed rail, though... Even if they had NO money, they could still have implemented the quarantine sooner and stopped chicken auctions sometime before December, which allowed plenty of poultry to circulate. Those actions would have cost them nothing. And addressed the out of control cockfighting and gambling rings (refused to do that, too). It is as if they wanted it to get worse to guarantee they WOULD get the funding... It is out-of-control now, and I see no progress. And the incompetent, disrespectful workers they have sent to the homes of law-abiding citizens and the pain their sadistic practices have inflicted just about guarantees future lack of cooperation when this happens again (and it will, since it is endemic in Mexico). And their complete lack of knowledge of biohazard techniques and disposal methods means the millions of birds have died for nothing. Eventually, this outbreak of disease will run it's course, possibly because people just quit reporting it, or maybe because there are no more chickens to infect because they are all dead. It is a sad situation and yes, I believe it could have been handled way better. Hoping at least it is a learning experience, but government doesn't care what citizens think until they are hit with a legal stick.

Total agreement. Back yard owners like us often pay a lot each year not only to buy their animals, but to feed and get them to. So it is horrible that anyone is forced to do this when it could have been handled better..

Im not in thate area, but this kinda treatment makes me mad. Just had to comment.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

@Animalfisherwoman @BreanneRN aphis site shows very little spread recently.
Where are you still seeing spread discrepancies?
The CDFA recent or total detections map seems to be showing a spread of more than one case a week?
If so, what is our recourse in requesting the data be synced up for the public?
It seems to me...the feds reporting the actual positive cases should be the single source of truth (?)
Thoughts?

Here is the latest map listed under "most recent detections." This is from May 10-June 9. https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/Animal_Health/pdfs/30DayDetections.pdf

What's missing here is the detections USDA reported in LA County a month ago. There's no dot there. There are four additional detections in the Victorville-Apple Valley area that are not on this CDFA map but I've seen them on the cdfa timeaware app that now is going to authorized login only here: https://cdfa.maps.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/oauth2/authorize?client_id=arcgisonline&display=default&response_type=token&state={"returnUrl":"https://cdfa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/TimeAware/index.html?appid=17b31813ef3a48558e314aae2d6afd4a&fbclid=IwAR1gCp12_723GykahQb1oBYs3Qj6-MLIaZ4GzQr2HutWJMZHDGWc8vIJr-E","useLandingPage":false}&expiration=20160&locale=en-us&redirect_uri=https://cdfa.maps.arcgis.com/home/accountswitcher-callback.html&force_login=false&showSignupOption=true

No one knows where in Riverside County the latest June 4 detection is.

Yes, we should expect the data to sync up as this is a joint cdfa/usda op. Moreover, the data needs to be specific to city. There is no privacy reason why that can't happen by city versus counting detections by counties the size of Delaware. The public trust they require is eroding because of inconsistencies and vagueness like this.

ETA @Kathy Golla I found the other link. It's a time lapse, but if you go to the end of it, you can see the new victorville and la cases. https://cdfa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/T...Z75QeOSy5QMONbjLo09V1cvG2hTzB-1rGZWKUJAAMe02U

 

[BreanneRN]

Mmm I see where you are going here.
Your dog rabies extrapolation is a very broad statement, not entirely true, let’s not scare people, we can debate the nuances offline. But I can respect your point about “herd immunity.”
Livestock and their rights seem to be much lower down the totem pole than domesticated pets, with chickens down at the bottom.
Those with poultry pets ( I am one) have a hard time with the concept that their pet chickens are susceptible to some pretty bad diseases, vaccines are not available, and the livestock industries have a lot of state and fed power. Backyard flocks are taking money out of the commercial industries pockets.
I for one am having to come to terms that if California is not going to protect their citizens rights, are going to protect the economy, are not going to formulate a vaccine, infected birds are always going to come through the border and game birds are a culture in Ca, maybe it’s not the best place to have chickens.

I'm afraid that what you say is exactly true, though California is a big state, and so far historically, the disease has not had serious outbreaks as far north as you are in the bay area. Not sure exactly why, but with origins in Asia, the disease is a warm climate thing. I believe it stays alive in the equatorial countries due to the wild Psittacine (parrots) populations, that are immune but carry the virus.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

I will just share this post from today. It encapsulates much of what people are going through. I have omitted personally identifying info.

Our hens are dead now, on OUR schedule and by our own, more humane hand. So now I will more fully share our story and our area, which is in the mandatory kill zone [details redacted]

"Hi Dr. [redacted], thank you for reaching out. I am always happy to discourse with any voices of reason because while this is emotional for me since these are my pets, there is also quite a bit of misinformation and bad advice going around.

As I see it, a major issue, as you have experienced in Jurupa Valley, is that there has been little consistency neighborhood to neighborhood or person to person or in town hall meetings with what is being said and done regarding this alleged VND outbreak. The resultant and unnecessary confusion has led to a lot of anger and frustration and misunderstandings. The state vet position and the actions of the cdfa and even the CHP have created an openly hostile environment. Adults do not enjoy being danced around or treated like they are ignorant or are being criminals.

We are in a mandatory kill zone. Our hens have always been confined in their enclosed henhouse and fenced and covered run, nowhere near any other chickens. My flock has always enjoyed peak health, and my across-the-street neighbor's (also fully contained) poultry were tested and found negative 3 months ago. We were obviously already in full QT compliance.

There are NO "passes" given anymore, and all area poultry in these zones are scheduled for killing, even with having fully complied with QT and biosecurity measures. There are many stories about unequal treatment and so much conflicting information being dispensed that nobody is actually finding the truth, as you have also experienced.

I have been in discussions with a veterinarian who is advocating for those of us in the QT and mandatory kill zones. She has had multiple and totally uninformative phone calls with the state veterinarian and several cdfa agents and staff. To my knowledge, there has been no one successful in obtaining evidence of infected birds within 1 mile of a mandatory kill zone and no cooperation with obtaining records to support the measures being taken to eradicate this alleged outbreak. Since it is a direct contact virus, that lack serves to further inflame the emotions of those of us who have privately owned poultry.

Privately owned quarantined domestic pigeons are being euthanized while at the same time we live in areas heavily populated with wild pigeons. I ask you, or anybody, which population--the confined or the wild--would any thinking individual believe poses more of a risk to infect the uninfected? Those of us who have been compliant from the get-go feel we are "sitting ducks" for the ever-changing and largely unannounced boundary changes and rules.

We woke up this morning to 3 vehicles on 2 of our side streets photographing our property and us, presumably to ensure that we do not attempt to move our birds and thus incur a $2,500 fine. They are in black or white cars or SUVs, waiting and watching for whatever it is they are looking for. My husband is outside this very moment humanely dispatching our hens while I type this, hiding upstairs in the bathroom in complete despair.

We elected to handle the euth situation our own way after watching numerous videos and photographs of horribly inept and cruel dispatch by the hired chicken killers. We were given a notice yesterday with a 10-day time frame, any day of which they would be coming to kill and dispose of our chickens. I go to work every day to work with animals and can't live with the threat of the death squad, cdfa personnel, and/or armed CHP officers appearing unannounced at an unknown time on an unknown day. What a thing it is to sit around and wait for this to happen at any random moment. No thank you.

I will phone the cdfa in the morning to tell them they can come inspect and fetch the poultry corpses that are now sealed in 5-gallon buckets in our outdoors refrigerator, perform their mandatory property inspection, and then tell them that I do not ever want to see them around our property again. If they return to ensure that we have not repopulated with new chickens, they will need to come prepared with a properly executed search warrant. We have had to kill our much-loved pets, and I am feeling beyond bitter about it.

 

[MandaRae]

I've been watching & reading these stories with a heavy heart. My Heart & prayers go out to all who have been affected by this

 

[BlueBaby]

I will just share this post from today. It encapsulates much of what people are going through. I have omitted personally identifying info.

Our hens are dead now, on OUR schedule and by our own, more humane hand. So now I will more fully share our story and our area, which is in the mandatory kill zone [details redacted]

"Hi Dr. [redacted], thank you for reaching out. I am always happy to discourse with any voices of reason because while this is emotional for me since these are my pets, there is also quite a bit of misinformation and bad advice going around.

As I see it, a major issue, as you have experienced in Jurupa Valley, is that there has been little consistency neighborhood to neighborhood or person to person or in town hall meetings with what is being said and done regarding this alleged VND outbreak. The resultant and unnecessary confusion has led to a lot of anger and frustration and misunderstandings. The state vet position and the actions of the cdfa and even the CHP have created an openly hostile environment. Adults do not enjoy being danced around or treated like they are ignorant or are being criminals.

We are in a mandatory kill zone. Our hens have always been confined in their enclosed henhouse and fenced and covered run, nowhere near any other chickens. My flock has always enjoyed peak health, and my across-the-street neighbor's (also fully contained) poultry were tested and found negative 3 months ago. We were obviously already in full QT compliance.

There are NO "passes" given anymore, and all area poultry in these zones are scheduled for killing, even with having fully complied with QT and biosecurity measures. There are many stories about unequal treatment and so much conflicting information being dispensed that nobody is actually finding the truth, as you have also experienced.

I have been in discussions with a veterinarian who is advocating for those of us in the QT and mandatory kill zones. She has had multiple and totally uninformative phone calls with the state veterinarian and several cdfa agents and staff. To my knowledge, there has been no one successful in obtaining evidence of infected birds within 1 mile of a mandatory kill zone and no cooperation with obtaining records to support the measures being taken to eradicate this alleged outbreak. Since it is a direct contact virus, that lack serves to further inflame the emotions of those of us who have privately owned poultry.

Privately owned quarantined domestic pigeons are being euthanized while at the same time we live in areas heavily populated with wild pigeons. I ask you, or anybody, which population--the confined or the wild--would any thinking individual believe poses more of a risk to infect the uninfected? Those of us who have been compliant from the get-go feel we are "sitting ducks" for the ever-changing and largely unannounced boundary changes and rules.

We woke up this morning to 3 vehicles on 2 of our side streets photographing our property and us, presumably to ensure that we do not attempt to move our birds and thus incur a $2,500 fine. They are in black or white cars or SUVs, waiting and watching for whatever it is they are looking for. My husband is outside this very moment humanely dispatching our hens while I type this, hiding upstairs in the bathroom in complete despair.

We elected to handle the euth situation our own way after watching numerous videos and photographs of horribly inept and cruel dispatch by the hired chicken killers. We were given a notice yesterday with a 10-day time frame, any day of which they would be coming to kill and dispose of our chickens. I go to work every day to work with animals and can't live with the threat of the death squad, cdfa personnel, and/or armed CHP officers appearing unannounced at an unknown time on an unknown day. What a thing it is to sit around and wait for this to happen at any random moment. No thank you.

I will phone the cdfa in the morning to tell them they can come inspect and fetch the poultry corpses that are now sealed in 5-gallon buckets in our outdoors refrigerator, perform their mandatory property inspection, and then tell them that I do not ever want to see them around our property again. If they return to ensure that we have not repopulated with new chickens, they will need to come prepared with a properly executed search warrant. We have had to kill our much-loved pets, and I am feeling beyond bitter about it.

Do you suppose that this could be some kind of a ruse so that they can be rid of all of the privately owned egg and meat bird's in that area, and then change the law's for being able to own any? That way none of them would be alive to "grandfather in" after the law is changed? It just seem's awful funny to me that only the privately owned bird's are being culled by them, but the wild one's have a "green light pass", and are left alone?