Low Hatch Rate

[aart]

Many people keep their eggs (for eating) on the counter not the fridge and 72 is within the range of normal living area temperatures...

That was my thought....don't tell my customers.

 

[ChickenFox]

It sounds like you're doing everything right so I'm going to follow this thread to see if anyone can figure out what's going on. I hope you find out soon.
As for a thermometer I use a brinsea spot check that I have fed through a vent in my incubator to double check my temps throughout incubation. I don't leave it on all the time, just turn it on for a few minutes a couple times a day to check it against what the built in is reading. Am happy to say they are never more than .5 off from each other but mostly only .3.
I've never really been one to watch humidity. I just candle and check aircells. If they seem to be getting too large too quickly I'll add water and if they seem a little small I leave water out. My humidity seems to hang around 35% for the most part until lockdown when I bump it to 60-65.
I wish you luck in figuring this conundrum out!

 

[Claires Poultry]

It sounds like you're doing everything right so I'm going to follow this thread to see if anyone can figure out what's going on. I hope you find out soon.
As for a thermometer I use a brinsea spot check that I have fed through a vent in my incubator to double check my temps throughout incubation. I don't leave it on all the time, just turn it on for a few minutes a couple times a day to check it against what the built in is reading. Am happy to say they are never more than .5 off from each other but mostly only .3.
I've never really been one to watch humidity. I just candle and check aircells. If they seem to be getting too large too quickly I'll add water and if they seem a little small I leave water out. My humidity seems to hang around 35% for the most part until lockdown when I bump it to 60-65.
I wish you luck in figuring this conundrum out!

Thank you. Yes, I pray we can get this problem figured out soon - with God's help!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Here's one, It's a PDF file, on second page under Temperature and humidity during storage.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=2ahUKEwiQzfzIgrPhAhUsnq0KHa0UBLEQFjATegQICBAC&url=https://aglifesciences.tamu.edu/posc/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2012/08/EPS-001-Incubating-and-Hatching-Eggs1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1oMdjCJe4UpAOJQUPWgz31

Here's another stating at what temperature the egg will stop developing, 21°C = 69°F
https://www.petersime.com/hatchery-development-department/egg-storage

Here's another:

https://books.google.com/books?id=eIFRAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA513&lpg=PA513&dq=72°F+and+egg+development&source=bl&ots=1lLJt3n-F1&sig=ACfU3U30TZnP-BEg2n4q6TVh4lNfTTpbcQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW59iJirPhAhVPQq0KHf82Ap8Q6AEwE3oECAkQAQ

Interesting articles, thanks for posting. I've often linked that A&M article as a guide to storing eggs for incubation. I'm not sure if I've read the others or not.

My understanding is that the embryo is alive from fertilization on. It develops some inside the body of the hen as it passes through her internal egg making factory and is at incubation temperature, that's why you see the bull's eye around a fertile freshly laid egg. Since that embryo is alive you can kill it, either through excessive heat or cold. Cycling from warm to cool and back is also supposed to be bad. Some eggs can go to extremes and still hatch, such as being stored in the refrigerator at pretty cold temperatures, but the point is that fertility decreases. It's a testament to how tough some of those eggs can be. The longer they are stored at those extremes the more fertility drops. If you are hatching 1,000,000 eggs a week like some commercial hatcheries do even a small percentage drop quickly becomes important.

The way I understand it, as long as that embryo is alive it is developing some. A poultry science professor once said that in a talk if my memory is correct. If it ever stops developing it dies. How fast it develops depends on its temperature. The warmer it is the faster it develops. If it is cold that rate is very slow. If it gets warm it is pretty fast. That's why the longer they are stored the more likely they are to lose hatchability.

The loss of humidity while storing them is often ignored on here. If the air is pretty dry, which it often is in the house with heating or AC on, the longer they are stored the more moisture they lose before incubation starts. The closer you can store them to ideal conditions the longer the embryo can last.

When I collect eggs for hatching I mark them with numbers in the order I collect them. A "1" was collected before a "24". Part of that is that I put a red number and a black number on opposite sides so I can see which side is up when I turn them. Part of that is that I like to have distinct markings on each egg so I can tell how long one has been pipped or if I saw one moving before it pipped. That also allows me to observe some things. I store them at room temperature, 72 F when the heat is on and 78 when the AC is on. I used to store them in the turner on a dresser but since my wife got a house dog I now store them in a drawer in that dresser and turn them by hand.

From one of those articles hatcheries can store eggs at ideal conditions for 20 days. I limit myself to collecting eggs for 7 days before I incubate them. Usually I have a broody clutch earlier but 7 days is pretty normal for the incubator. I have noted which eggs are smaller or larger to see if that made any difference in when they hatched. Smaller eggs are supposed to hatch earlier than larger eggs. I did not see any difference. I have purposely noticed if the order they were laid (how long they sere stored before incubation) made any difference in which ones hatched or did not hatch. It did not. An egg that had been stored a week was as likely to hatch as one that was laid the day I set them.

This doesn't mean I don't believe the science. I do believe the science. But I'm not hatching 1,000,000 eggs every week of the year. I may set two dozen eggs two times a year and maybe three or four broody hens. My database is really small. You have to have enough eggs for averages to mean something, I don't. One egg not hatching swings my incubator hatch rate 4%. 40,000 eggs a week swings those hatchery rates 4%. Quite a difference. For my purposes buying a small refrigerator, setting the temperature up fairly warm, and setting many trays of water in there to get the humidity up isn't worth an egg each hatch. If you are trying to hatch enough eggs it may be.

From my experience what the OP has described the hatch rate should be a lot higher than 30%. Not 100% but the commercial hatcheries average about 90%, pretty evenly split between things that happened before the egg was incubated and things that happen during incubation. I usually don't get 90% either, but unless I do something really wrong like shaking the eggs a lot during transportation, I don't get 30% either. I'm more likely to be in the 80's, whether in my incubator or under a broody if you average out all my broody hens in a season.

I can't see that Claire is doing anything that wrong. Her incubator cleaning and the eggs she is setting should be more than sufficient to stop rotten eggs but she still gets a few. I don't understand that at all. Her eggs hatching at 21 to 22 days says her temperature is not off enough to cause any real issues. Maybe something to do with humidity, North Dakota can be pretty dry? I'm totally frustrated, I can't see anything really wrong, certainly not wrong enough to cause that bad a hatch rate.

 

[aart]

My understanding is that the embryo is alive from fertilization on. It develops some inside the body of the hen as it passes through her internal egg making factory and is at incubation temperature, that's why you see the bull's eye around a fertile freshly laid egg. Since that embryo is alive you can kill it, either through excessive heat or cold. Cycling from warm to cool and back is also supposed to be bad. Some eggs can go to extremes and still hatch, such as being stored in the refrigerator at pretty cold temperatures, but the point is that fertility decreases. It's a testament to how tough some of those eggs can be. The longer they are stored at those extremes the more fertility drops.

 

[Claires Poultry]

It might be useful to know that every time my siblings walk by the incubator, they touch or mess with it.
Bad bacteria could be getting like that. For awhile I just kept rewashing it, but I can't just wash it 5 times a day forever.
Soon it will have eggs in it and that won't be possible. Not only that but I'll run out of vinegar.
I have told them all not to touch it about 9,000 times but they could care less. They do it just to make me mad. It drives me insane!
If they continue doing it during incubation they might shake or damage the eggs. They probably will because they did it all the other years.
I know there's nothing you can do about it, I just thought it might be another reason for low hatch rates.

 

[Fishkeeper]

Can you padlock it or hide it in a closet somewhere?

 

[Kiki]

Or talk to your parents about your siblings nasty habits?

 

[Claires Poultry]

Can you padlock it or hide it in a closet somewhere?

Last year I had it in my closet but this year it won't fit there. I was trying to think of a way that I could build something around it.

 

[Fishkeeper]

Can you take things out of your closet to make it fit?