LSG that herds as well?

[MrsBachbach]

I'm not disputing that. However, I don't have a mutt, I have a full blooded Great Pyrenees, an LGD. So what is your point? I wasn't disputing any mutt could protect chickens, you were.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
My point hasn't changed, so I'm not sure why you're asking again. Your LGD is not "guarding" your chickens, so much as it's guarding the territory. It's not "bonded" to them the way it would to sheep or goats

 

[MrsBachbach]

"I would like to know what you think she is doing when she goes after a dog that is chasing the chickens if you don't think it is protecting them?" Guarding her territory, because she'd do the same even if the birds weren't there

No, I already told you she is not territorial. That's been disproved. She allows dogs that don't bother the chickens on our property all the time. Dogs I didn't introduce her to. She allows deer on the property too, unless I am outside. I guess she thinks they are a threat to me when I am out. Otherwise, they can graze in my front yard. I think you know Pyrenees were bred to think on their own and judge the threat level on their own. That would explain her behaviour. So, you can give up on that territorial notion.

 

[MrsBachbach]

My point hasn't changed, so I'm not sure why you're asking again.Your LGD is not "guarding" your chickens, so much as it's guarding the territory.It's not "bonded" to them the way it would to sheep or goats

You just go ahead and think what you want and I will know what I know, mmkay? I don't have to prove anything about my dog to you. She has proved all she needs to to me.

 

[centrarchid]

MrsBachBack,

Bear Foot has a point about direct guarding of birds versus territoriality. Will your dog move with birds and center its activities around them? Additionally the dogs allowed are likely considered part of the local pack and as such your dog does not act aggressively to them. It would not be out of character for your dog to reprimand such dogs if they pursue birds which is suggestive of defending flock or simply suppression of general predatory behavior. Those possibilities would take effort to tease apart.



I do not doubt possibility that some dogs can bond to chickens but have not seen it personally. That does not provide evidence it does not exist. I attempted imprinting with my current dog. He does not center his activities on those birds. Birds he was reared with are clearly recognized by dog even three years later but he does not treat them differently other than actually play fighting with rooster which rooster may have a lot to do with. Rooster does not see it as play.

 

[Kyonarai]

I think the point that all of us were trying to make, is that it IS worthwhile to have a well trained dog in the same yard as chickens, because they will offer deterrent to predators just by guarding their territory. Bear foot said it wasn't worth the trouble, and I disagree.

A dog doesn't have to be a livestock guard to effectively guard something. A dog can guard a crate, or a yard, or a house, and if chickens happen to be amongst the contents of any of those areas, they will indirectly benefit from said dog, now wont they?

My dog is a guard dog. He guards the yard. The chickens live in the yard. By the dog guarding the yard, the predators stay out of the yard, thereby protecting the chickens from said predators. It's really quite simple.

For instance, lets say I have a raccoon enter the yard. Raccoon scales fence of the dog/chicken yard and proceeds to approach the coop. Rooster notices Raccoon prying at wire and makes a fuss. Dog thinks "Hey, weird noise equals something out of place." Dog comes running and finds raccoon. Dog proceeds to either kill or drive off raccoon. Killed or driven off raccoon equals living chickens. Living chickens are much better than dead, eaten by raccoon chickens. Everyone is happy. Party ensues. YAAAAAY! Dog pees on stuff and goes back to happily lounging on the porch. Chickens get some sleep.

Alternate scenario involves dog ripping raccoon corpse to shreds in utter glee and leaving me with whats left of the corpse after my female saint gets through eating it. Lovely thing to wake up to in the morning...ugh.

Also, since the apparent issue seems to resolve around what is to be called a 'Livestock Guardian Dog', my dogs are now officially 'Froo Foo Cuddly Poops'. Froo Froo Cuddly Poops, henceforth abbreviated as FFCP, are characterized by their general desire to maul intruding wildlife that happens to find chicken tasty. Note, that they aren't actually 'guarding' anything. They just happen to have an overwhelming desire to maul things and throw parties on the resulting corpses. It's not their fault that they are restrained in a yard with the weird feathery-mabobs that squawk. The feathery-mabobs are just strange, moving scenery that occassionally let them know when a tasty mauling target is within range. However, the dogs wish the feathery-mabobs were a bit more adept at it, because most of the time they have to look for tasty mauling targets themselves, and that's just plain unfair.

I've got a lovely bunch of FFCPs, dee dee lee dee... here they are all lying in a row. Big ones...slightly...smaller...ones...okay all of them are big. But that's okay, they save the day, so I can do a little jig! OHHHHH.....

...I blame cookies and mango lemonaid.

 

[MrsBachbach]

MrsBachBack,

Bear Foot has a point about direct guarding of birds versus territoriality. Will your dog move with birds and center its activities around them? Additionally the dogs allowed are likely considered part of the local pack and as such your dog does not act aggressively to them. It would not be out of character for your dog to reprimand such dogs if they pursue birds which is suggestive of defending flock or simply suppression of general predatory behavior. Those possibilities would take effort to tease apart.



I do not doubt possibility that some dogs can bond to chickens but have not seen it personally. That does not provide evidence it does not exist. I attempted imprinting with my current dog. He does not center his activities on those birds. Birds he was reared with are clearly recognized by dog even three years later but he does not treat them differently other than actually play fighting with rooster which rooster may have a lot to do with. Rooster does not see it as play.

I only have a few acres and only about half of that is ranged by the birds. So, my dog doesn't have to move much to be with them. I have seen her with them when they are grouped together. The birds don't always stay in one group but sometimes two or three so my dog has her look out points she inhabits. She was kept by the chickens as a pup and playfullness on her part wasn't tolerated for obvious reasons. She did try but was reprimanded by me. She goes in the pen and around the pen to check things out, eats chicken food and stuff, comes running when she hears a hen in distress (only to find me as the cause of the ruckus), breaks up rooster fights and has even shown concern on the rare occassions when I was handling a bird in loud respiratory distress. I use to catch her going into the pen and retrieving eggs when she was younger. I would find her carrying the eggs around with her or leaving them in the yard with not so much as a tooth mark on them. She will not touch raw chicken even when offered it.

As far as the other dogs go, she seems to know which ones pose a threat and which do not. Some of the dogs that attacked were not local, two are. Everytime they pass by with their owner or without, she is on their tail. Other local dogs going by with their owner are just given a few barks. There have been dogs that come on our property and sniff around and she just follows them around, so I don't think she is territorial. She just never seemed to display that behavior. Local or not, the behavior she displays seems to depend on the dog and whether it is a threat or not. I have two house dogs that tolerate or ignore the chickens so I am aware of the difference. Of course, it's not just dogs that she guards against. Opossums and other critters best stay away also. Since bear, coyote and bobcat are around here also, I am sure grateful for her presence. I know she wouldn't stand a chance with a real fight against a bear, but she would sure gain it's attention.

Whether she is imprinted with the chickens or not is not what I was talking about although I tend to believe she is because she stays put around here even when we are gone. Unlike the guy down the road whose Pyre lets his other dog kill his chickens and when they get the chance to leave the fenced yard they wander for miles. Bearclaw suggested it was not possible for a LGD to guard chickens and I say phooey. Imprinted or not, mine does. Only other thing here that is always outside with her are two cats. Which she also loves.

 

[APPA Member]

"Think what you will, but she has saved these chickens from slaughter on more than one occassion" Again, any mutt from a pound can do that.

Here is a picture of a commercial pastured poultry operation back in May 2013 being guarded by a Great Pyrenees LGD. To say that any mutt from a pound can do that would be ridiculous.

 

[Ultra]

"I would like to know what you think she is doing when she goes after a dog that is chasing the chickens if you don't think it is protecting them?" Guarding her territory, because she'd do the same even if the birds weren't there

Ah, you see, that's simply not true.

My German Shepherd only goes outside when the birds are out ranging. She doesn't patrol outside unless the birds are there; if they are penned up, she hangs out inside watching the kids play Xbox. If she was just guarding territory, her behavior would not be centered around the birds.

Frankly, since you are not here to observe her behavior, your opinion is misinformed to say the least.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
No it wouldn't be ridiculous, because it's true. The dogs you're showing are CONFINED, as LGD's SHOULD be. The OP wants a dog that will stay on 3 ACRES, and a true LGD will NOT do that, just as they wiil NOT 'bond" to chickens