LSG that herds as well?

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
If the dog is inside, it's a pet. It's not "guarding" anything. A TRUE LGD would prefer to stay with "it's animals" I don't need to be there to understand her behavior, since it's obviously more territorial than anything else You're mistakenly thinking it's somehow "centered" around the birds.

 

[APPA Member]

No it wouldn't be ridiculous, because it's true.The dogs you're showing are CONFINED, as LGD's SHOULD be.The OP wants a dog that will stay on 3 ACRES, and a true LGD will NOT do that, just as they wiil NOT 'bond" to chickens

The point of the photograph was to show that it takes a unique type dog to guard a pastured poultry operation in inclement weather and a hostile environment. This particular operation now has 800 pastured chickens and ducks, and they aren't going to trust the safety of their flock and livelihood to just any mutt from the pound.

You forget that a Great Pyrenees is fearless when confronting a predator and has the size to back it up, which are very desirable traits. They also tend to be nocturnal, which is when many predators are on the hunt. Bonding to chickens is unimportant, however this does not disqualify using a Great Pyrenees to guard poultry. These traits, however, disqualify using just any mutt from the pound.

 

[centrarchid]

The point of the photograph was to show that it takes a unique type dog to guard a pastured poultry operation in inclement weather and a hostile environment. This particular operation now has 800 pastured chickens and ducks, and they aren't going to trust the safety of their flock and livelihood to just any mutt from the pound.

You forget that a Great Pyrenees is fearless when confronting a predator and has the size to back it up, which are very desirable traits. They also tend to be nocturnal, which is when many predators are on the hunt. Bonding to chickens is unimportant, however this does not disqualify using a Great Pyrenees to guard poultry. These traits, however, disqualify using just any mutt from the pound.

Inclement weather need not always be cold. Pastured poultry products are also produced at lower latitudes where temperatures are in the 100's F. Under hotter conditions, especially when chronically wet, the heavy coat is a liability making heat of day guarding more difficult and health issues related to moisture a big deal. Not many of the LGD's currently in the US are suited to the heat.

Dave, where our LGD's operate with sheep and goats in confinement very similar to yours, hot days are when dog and herd tend to separate. This particularly evident with the Great Pyrenees. Eventually, people in warmer and hotter locations than you enjoy will be better served to look at dogs suited for a different set of extremes. This may mean starting with mutts.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Yes there is a breed that will herd and guard, sometimes even hunt. Research the English Shepherd.

I have two. They keep the chickens in certain areas, out of others ie the deck, garden etc. They also herd the cattle & sheep when I need help with them, but leave them alone when help is not needed. They are known for their "off switch", which means they are not as driven to work like a Border Collie, but will work when there is a need. They protect against predators, will kill small ones like possums, will tree or chase off coon, will bark to warn off coyotes. They also hunt & kill vermin like gophers. Mine also alert me to strangers and act protective, but will be friendly when told that a person is a friend. Unlike most LGDs, they can be trained to stay on a small property. Another difference is that they don't bark as much. The biggest difference is that they are very people oriented and biddable to training. They will want to be with you as a companion but will still watch over the stock.
They are similar to Aussies but have not been bred for show, so still have more working instinct.
The German Shepherd breed is my favorite breed. We have had them for 30+ years. But they do have a hard bite and tend to grip when helping with stock. That means injuries. I got ES when we got this ranch because they are the traditional multi purpose farm dog of America. They have rate with stock, which means that they can be as gentle or firm as necessary, depending on the type of stock.
You do have to train them. They are known for being bossy and enforcing the rules. You have to teach them the correct rules.
If you decide to get an ES, research to find a reputable breeder and make sure that you are getting a dog that meets your needs. Temperaments and working ability can vary. There is also National English Shepherd Rescue.
Hope this helps.

How are they with foxes? I'm trying to figure out the right breed for my home. Moveable fencing just isn't practical with my landscape (forest, wetland, rocky earth, plus i can't exactly block off my neighbour's driveway to let the birds in their favourite patch while also leaving them a way home) and costs the same as an adoption fee. While I haven't had an issue with predators for my first two years, except for one coon incident that was promptly cured with a hockey stick, this year has been a doozy. First neighbourhood husky crosses - 2 of them on 3 seperate occasions, twice while I was home - came for joy killings, then I had birds mysteriously vanishing overnight without a trace! Needless to say, they go on full lockdown at nights now (normally doggy-door stays open). I have one acre, plus the birds have use of the neighbour's wetland across from my back yard. I want a herding dog just to mind them when my back is turned to keep them going too far but also want one that will stand up to mid-size canine predators in addition to whatever else might turn up one day (coons, mink).

 

[Phoenixxx]

Phooey. I have a Great Pyrenees and she protects my chickens. That is all I have, chickens. There was a time that I wondered if she was truly guarding them or me, but I wonder no longer. She is protecting all of us. I have witnessed, (while I was in the house) her chase off dogs that have attacked the chickens in the past and watched her go after dogs that have even shown an interest in the chickens. Now, she doesn't do this to dogs that have never bothered the chickens, only the ones that have or are going to. She knows which ones are eyeing the birds. Sorry, but this LGD guards chickens. Now, a sneaky predator does on occassion get him one, but I am not losing most or all of my flock like I have in the past and I attribute that to her. My acreage is unfenced and my chickens are let out of the pen daily. Also, she doesn't wander like others have said theirs do. She has never been behind a fence and while she doesn't know our property line, she has never been out of calling distance. When she was a pup and just brought home, I kept her on a leash for two weeks and walked her twice a day around our property. She was brought into the chicken pen when on a leash also, again for about two weeks. That was the extent of her training on birds, property etc. She is a smart dog, not territorial, just protective.

How big is your property? Does she keep the chickens inside the boundary you trained her to? I was considering a pyr when I saw some pups for sale but was concerned about the wandering bit since I, too, have no fence but only one acre.

 

[centrarchid]

How big is your property? Does she keep the chickens inside the boundary you trained her to? I was considering a pyr when I saw some pups for sale but was concerned about the wandering bit since I, too, have no fence but only one acre.

Your property is too small for an LGD. Even my dogs would find 1 acre too tight a fit. Dogs also far from cheapest option when dealing such acreages.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Your property is too small for an LGD. Even my dogs would find 1 acre too tight a fit. Dogs also far from cheapest option when dealing such acreages.

That's what I thought after reading up on their history. I just looked up the english sheepdog; if keeping pieces of trees out of my hair is a pain, keeping forest out of that breed's coat will be a NIGHTMARE!!!

As for the expense, no, a dog would not be more costly. The highest portable fencing isn't high enough to keep my chickens in nor crafty predators out. It's also about $500 after exchange etc. Electric fencing is about the same. Plus trying to unroll the stuff through trees, across dips in the ground, what have you, it's just not practical. And for what I've lost in livestock this year alone, wow... The third husky attack I lost only one because they were all free-ranging at the time and all got away except for the houdan who couldn't see the dog in time. Also, we've been wanting a family dog ANYWAY, just the chicken thing means we need to lean towards certain breeds moreso than others Hubby desperately wants a snorting, farting, slobbering bulldog but I hardly doubt one of them would make a suitable chicken guardian, know what I mean?

 

[centrarchid]

I use a combination of poultry netting (inner perimeter for brooder reared juvenile chickens) and an outer perimeter of three hot wires at 12" intervals starting at 6" above ground to keep out roaming dogs. I got my dogs for free and they help greatly with wildlife that easily defeats outer perimeter. Fencing cost more on front side but into second year dog cost more than fencing owing to feed costs. My feed bill is comparable to that of an LGD and we do vet visits for insurance reasons.

Any dog breed other than one with short hair will have difficulty with seeds and sticks that tangle hair. LGD's are particulalry bad about that.

You do not have to fence in your entire property and moving electric poultry netting is easy. My ground is likely at least as hilly as your. A combination of weedeater and chainsaw makes for clearings to run fence through.

 

[Kyonarai]

I've just gotten a new pup who will be an interesting experiment. A Caucasian shepherd from working lines. I imported him from Croatia because only a handful of breeders here in the states raise them with livestock, and they tend to lean towards the 'soviet era' temperament which is higher drive and energy and less lgd attitude.

I think he shows promise. Granted, he will most likely be guarding the property and not the chickens directly, but the COs are said to be such an efficient guard that it should not matter.

They also show promise for hot climates because their thick coat is insulating against heat and cold, and they also come in a rarer short coated variety that I would like to get my hands on at some point in the future.

So far, Dax, the puppy, is very mellow in temperament. A normal amount of chewing and playing for a pup, but very serious. He watches things all day, and has started sleeping where he can see both the other dogs and the chickens, which I found interesting. He also doesn't care to be inside for long, even in the heat of the day. He prefers to be out with his 'pack' and comes in to visit us several times a day.

So far, I really like his temperament and I am sure he will have the strength and nerve to take down these ****** coy/dog/wolf hybrids we have here in sothern texas. Hopefully with extreme prejudice.

 

[centrarchid]

The insulatory value of that hair works against dog when it is hot. If the dog has to do anything physical heat produced from the activity will dwarf that coming from external sources and it is the internally produced heat that is hard for such a dog to dump. Otherwise good luck with dog.