Lump Hanging behind roosters ear? What is it ??

Hi, and thank you, do you happen to know .. or have any experience with Mareks disease? What would be the first signs (apart from tumours) I should be looking for just in case it is Mareks? I will definitely try bathing it first to see what the scab does. And see where I go from there I suppose. With the other smaller growth coming up under his eye, it really doesn't look good for him. He's always been the less human friendly and runs away when we're near, which is why it has become so big before noticing , very upsetting... .
 
@microchick has a lot of experience dealing with Mareks. I don't know if she has seen tumors like this.

This quote below is something she wrote up for another person who thought they might be dealing with Mareks. It is a great rundown of how to deal with it and what you can and can't do.

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this. I've been fighting the flu for over two weeks now. The medicine that I take for inflammatory arthritis makes me super susceptible to infections and unable to take a flu shot so it was quite an experience. I'm just now trying to catch up with things.

I hate to hear that you are still having trouble with bird loss and hate it even more that you still suspect that you are dealing with Marek's. There really isn't an easy answer to your question of 'getting rid of Marek's' because you really can't get rid of Marek's once you have an outbreak. You have to understand that science believes that Marek's is so prevalent that if you test birds from every flock in America you will discover that every flock has been exposed at some time. The trick is that if birds don't die from the disease, it is because they are resistant to it.

I'm going to use my flock of Buff Orpingtons and Welsummers as an example here. I had 22 laying hens and 6 roosters at one point. That number went up to over 40 birds with hens brooding chicks for me. Right now I have 11 5 year old hens and 2 roosters left. These birds at this point are my resistant birds and are doing well. Test any one of them though and they will come up positive for Marek's exposure as will birds from my bantam flock.

Now you have to look at where Marek's comes from. I asked the same questions you are asking in the beginning. Seems logical that if you cull them all and start over you can avoid the virus.

DING DING DING DING! RED ALERT! WRONG!

Marek's disease is airborne and can carry up to 5 miles on the wind. It is also transmittable via wild birds and via contact with the virus being carried in by shoes and clothing.

Been to the feed store? Chances are Farmer Brown has been too and Farmer Brown just tossed two dead chickens on the compost pile that he found dead that morning.......from Marek's. Farmer Brown walking through his property and then into the feed store has just spread the virus from his flock to potentially every flock whose owner has just went to the feed store to buy layer pellets.

Say that you decide to cull all of your birds and get new birds to replace them. How are you going to keep them away from wild birds? It can be done but now you have wild birds that are populating your property and every time they shake out their feathers they are reinfecting your property with whatever diseases that they are carrying on their dander including Marek's.

That pretty little robin sitting on your run fence just flew over from Farmer Brown's farm. Remember farmer Brown just had two birds tossed on the compost pile that succumbed to Marek's disease only Farmer Brown doesn't know that because if you have live stock you are going to eventually have dead stock.

Are you starting to get the picture here? No matter what you do no matter how careful you are you cannot stop this virus from coming onto your property.

Now back to my flock. I have 11 resistant hens and two roosters one of which is showing signs of having some sort of joint inflammation and the other that is showing no signs of the disease. I was told by somebody who knows this disease, a veterinarian scientist at the University of Missouri, that those are the birds that I need to be breeding to continue on my flock and breed resistant birds.

To cull birds that are showing no signs of the disease is basically tossing out the baby with the dirty bath water.

I know it is hard sitting back and watching birds die from this disease. At one point I was either finding a dead bird or culling a dying bird at the rate of one to two a week. I was pretty depressed by the whole situation but came to realize that I just needed to sit back and ride this out.

You cannot rid your property of this disease once it is there. Are you prepared to scrape off the top 6 inches of soil from every inch of your property? Are you prepared to burn every out building that has ever had a wild bird roost in it or are you prepared to throw a net over your entire property to keep wild birds out...no wait, that won't work, if a wild bird flies over your property that is carrying Marek's and it poops in flight and that poop lands on your newly sanitized property you are now reinfected.

I hope you are starting to see the big picture here concerning how difficult it is to remove Marek's from your property. Way much more work than any average chicken owner will want to do.

So this should be the plan.

DO NOTHING. Seriously. You are still going to lose a few more birds but the birds that survive this outbreak if it is indeed Marek's disease are going to be worth their weight in gold. Even if you have some other disease in your flock the birds that survive it are going to be fantastic, strong birds to breed for replacement birds.

What you should be doing is doing your best to keep the remaining birds healthy. Vitamins, probiotics. The best feed you can afford and practice the best biosecurity that you can.

I know what I'm asking is hard. It is agonizing to hold a beloved rooster or hen in your lap that is gasping for breath, pet them, tell them how much you love them and appreciate all the eggs the hen has given you or all the times that the rooster has made you laugh and then put them down and put a bullet in their heads. I've shed buckets of tears and agonized over every loss until I came to realize that if you have chickens you are going to have losses, either from disease or from predation. If you have Marek's well, you are going to have more losses than you counted on but you can overcome this infestation and have chickens left to enjoy.

I too thought about doing a 100% cull but thanks to that Doctor at Mizzou that told me not to do that I didn't. He told me I have a few birds left but those birds were vital to the survival of my flock and he was oh so right.

I commend you for sending off a dead bird to be tested and your attitude of 'I'm going to lick this' is just the attitude that you need but please don't cull your healthy birds just to bring in more birds that will probably even if vaccinated suffer a loss or more because you cannot realistically remove Marek's from your property.

I'm sorry for the long post but no post concerning surviving Marek's can be done in a few sentences.

Hang on. It does get better. Not great, but better.:hugs
 
@microchick has a lot of experience dealing with Mareks. I don't know if she has seen tumors like this.

This quote below is something she wrote up for another person who thought they might be dealing with Mareks. It is a great rundown of how to deal with it and what you can and can't do.
What a beautiful response from "Microchick", thanks for showing me that. Well....that's it then , I'll just bathe his little face, see what the scab does, brace myself to do what I have to do and necropsy, and just be vigil with the others. Wish me luck , thank you again, take care :)
 
Yes, sadly I have 4 years experience of Marek's in my flock but mine have been mostly the neurological type and I haven't had a case of cutaneous Marek's which I suspect this is (or ocular Marek's for that matter either). There are 4 main types.... neurological, visceral, ocular and cutaneous. There is some cross over between them and I've only experienced the first two so far with the strain that my flock has. Cutaneous is probably the least common. Unfortunately Silkies are particularly prone to Marek's Disease.

I would be keeping an eye out for any neurological symptoms like wry neck or unexplained lameness or a dropped wing or wry tail. It can be as subtle as a bird being unable to keep one eyelid fully open, or as severe as them floundering on the ground unable to get up. It can resolve completely and as suddenly as it came on in a few days or take weeks or months to make a limited recovery or they decline and die. It can even cause sudden death with visceral tumours. With cutaneous Marek's, the site and the speed of growth will be factors that will determine quality of life. Unfortunately, unlike the neurological version which can resolve and then return with dormant periods in between, once a cutaneous or visceral tumour has started to develop, I do not believe that it can then disappear, so it is usually a steady decline. You will also usually see muscle wastage with Marek's which you can monitor by palpitating the breast muscle or by weighing. Birds with Marek's will often be smaller in general for their breed.

I remember how devastating my Marek's diagnosis was and from my initial research the future seemed extremely bleak, but in my experience, it has not been nearly as bad as much of my research suggested and whilst every loss is heart breaking, there are birds that do not succumb and I have found that breeding from the survivors has been the best way to manage it in my flock.
 
As a former vet tech with no experience with Mareks, let me also throw out the possibility of a hematoma. I've seen it in many dog ears, and treated a few myself, that had scabs that large. If he's been scratching his ear or got in a fight and punctured the blood vessels, they may have pooled up inside his body. If so, a few drains of the blood/fluid may get him back to normal. Whatever it is, good luck to you.
 
Yes, sadly I have 4 years experience of Marek's in my flock but mine have been mostly the neurological type and I haven't had a case of cutaneous Marek's which I suspect this is (or ocular Marek's for that matter either). There are 4 main types.... neurological, visceral, ocular and cutaneous. There is some cross over between them and I've only experienced the first two so far with the strain that my flock has. Cutaneous is probably the least common. Unfortunately Silkies are particularly prone to Marek's Disease.

I would be keeping an eye out for any neurological symptoms like wry neck or unexplained lameness or a dropped wing or wry tail. It can be as subtle as a bird being unable to keep one eyelid fully open, or as severe as them floundering on the ground unable to get up. It can resolve completely and as suddenly as it came on in a few days or take weeks or months to make a limited recovery or they decline and die. It can even cause sudden death with visceral tumours. With cutaneous Marek's, the site and the speed of growth will be factors that will determine quality of life. Unfortunately, unlike the neurological version which can resolve and then return with dormant periods in between, once a cutaneous or visceral tumour has started to develop, I do not believe that it can then disappear, so it is usually a steady decline. You will also usually see muscle wastage with Marek's which you can monitor by palpitating the breast muscle or by weighing. Birds with Marek's will often be smaller in general for their breed.

I remember how devastating my Marek's diagnosis was and from my initial research the future seemed extremely bleak, but in my experience, it has not been nearly as bad as much of my research suggested and whilst every loss is heart breaking, there are birds that do not succumb and I have found that breeding from the survivors has been the best way to manage it in my flock.
Thank you rebrascora, I am so sorry you have had to deal with that, It makes me feel physically sick to find my or your chickens dying repeatedly. However, I have had a few losses now, through the odd respratory illness, dogs, foxes, hawks and only cry every second time now. My partner is a pigeon racer and he has had to deal with the rotavirus, and dealt with it just like the suggestions of dealing with Marek's. ..... Breed and race the survivors, they're stronger and keep the immunity in the loft. I will brace myself for the worst and hope for the best, and I can almost guarantee if it (Marek's) does hit....everyone on this post thread will be hearing me howling from all over the world. Thanks again for your advice, I have a few more things to research now and look for, I'll keep everyone posted on what happens. :)
 
As a former vet tech with no experience with Mareks, let me also throw out the possibility of a hematoma. I've seen it in many dog ears, and treated a few myself, that had scabs that large. If he's been scratching his ear or got in a fight and punctured the blood vessels, they may have pooled up inside his body. If so, a few drains of the blood/fluid may get him back to normal. Whatever it is, good luck to you.
Hi JurassicBawk, thank you, that was the exact thing my partner said to me today when he saw it. I will bathe it tomorrow, see what I can see in there and make my decision from there I suppose. Geez I hope it is something like that .
 
Thank you rebrascora, I am so sorry you have had to deal with that, It makes me feel physically sick to find my or your chickens dying repeatedly. However, I have had a few losses now, through the odd respratory illness, dogs, foxes, hawks and only cry every second time now. My partner is a pigeon racer and he has had to deal with the rotavirus, and dealt with it just like the suggestions of dealing with Marek's. ..... Breed and race the survivors, they're stronger and keep the immunity in the loft. I will brace myself for the worst and hope for the best, and I can almost guarantee if it (Marek's) does hit....everyone on this post thread will be hearing me howling from all over the world. Thanks again for your advice, I have a few more things to research now and look for, I'll keep everyone posted on what happens. :)
I don't know about Australia, but in the US, most states have state vets that will do necropsies on deceased birds and test for diseases. If you were in the US I would tag someone knowledgeable about how to do this, but I don't think she has any knowledge about your country.
 
I don't know about Australia, but in the US, most states have state vets that will do necropsies on deceased birds and test for diseases. If you were in the US I would tag someone knowledgeable about how to do this, but I don't think she has any knowledge about your country.
Thank you for the thought, We have an avian vet about 40min drive from here but their prices are just ridiculous. They class themselves as "Exotic Pet" Vets. Since when is a chicken exotic ? I have asked my hubby to send some pics to his pigeon vet tomorrow to get his opinion, I'll see what he says ?
 
Thank you for the thought, We have an avian vet about 40min drive from here but their prices are just ridiculous. They class themselves as "Exotic Pet" Vets. Since when is a chicken exotic ? I have asked my hubby to send some pics to his pigeon vet tomorrow to get his opinion, I'll see what he says ?
A private vet would be more expensive to get a necropsy and a test done. There is probably a state run vet department that might be able to do a necropsy for less.

I really hope this is just an abscess or a hemotoma and your little guy goes on to live a long happy life.

However, if something does happen and he dies or you decide to put him down, make sure that you refrigerate or freeze his body so a necropsy can be done. I'm only suggesting that you look into that option now so that you aren't at a loss where to go if/when the time comes. Many people lose out on getting an answer because they didn't look that information up ahead of time and once the bird passes, they don't want to deal with it at that time.
 

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