Making your own breed!

[OhZark Biddies]

Any thoughts on Golden Phoenix/Salmon Favorelle?

It's an interesting question? I'm in no way an expert on chicken genetics, so read my reply with the proverbial "grain of salt".

Often when you cross you end up with a watered down blend or an average of the traits , rather than getting the best of both parent breeds.

For instance, for long tails within the same breed, you would typically select for those parents that have the longest tails. If you select a female phoenixwith a long tail, and a male phoenix that has a shorter tail, the pure phoenix offspring would likely have an average tail length, not a long tail length.

So crossing the phoenix and the faverolle would likely give you tails a bit longer than what the faverolle has, but not really "long tails"

But really my explanation is a bit simplistic, in reality there is a bit more to that you will want to study up on, here's a start:
https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/Longtail/ReederLongtailGenetics.html

I don't really know, but my guess would be that fluffy feathers are similar to the feathering genetics involved in long tails.

And then there is the color... while the males look similar genetically, I don't think these 2 breeds are the same base color. Faverolles are wheaten based (EWh/EWh ) and the phoenix would be (e+/e+) based, I think . So depending on how you did the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc generation crosses, it could get difficult to get the colors to stabilize.

Add to that, golden phoenix are gold based and faverolles are silver based... although this would likely be easier to work with as long as you wanted golden color.

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you to try this, just adding some thoughts in case it helps.

 

[JanetMarie]

I don't have my own breed, but they're crossed and hybrids that I'm happy with. It's been interesting. They are multi colored barred roosters, and the hens are either black and copper, or black with gold hackles. They are sex-linked.

I do consider them my own "breed", even though they're not.

I'm not serious about making any real breed, but just having fun. Most have great temperments, but it's sad at butchering time for the boys, since I can't keep them all. They do have good lives while they're here.

Now I have an Ameraucana hen that I'm adding her genes into the mix.

 

[Dpyskaty325]

you do understand that you will not have a "breed" until they can throw offspring exactly what they look like ? 5 years is hardly enough time to do this ..
I don't want to burst your bubble, and I wish you luck..
..........jiminwisc........

Yes, I know that it will take a very long time. More of a long term project

 

[nicalandia]

I'm not sure what you guys are on about, 5 years is more than enough for creating a simple "Salmon" pattern, basically a red enhanced silver wheaten, with proper diligence and the right breeding plan it's certainly possible.


God forbid he would like to create a more complex pattern like the Red Shouldered Yokohama , perhaps 20 years would not be enough by your own account.

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I'm not sure what you guys are on about, 5 years is more than enough for creating a simple "Salmon" pattern, basically a red enhanced silver wheaten, the rest will be wildtype.

Okay, so what would be the "recipe" to get there the fastest way? Can you help the OP out a bit in thinking through the crosses and/or back crosses?

Also, establishing the "simple salmon" color was only one part of it, what do you think is involved in getting the "long tailed, fluffy feathered" salmon pattern from the faverolles x phoenix cross that the OP was asking about?

More generations, or just careful selection at the beginning?

 

[nicalandia]

Okay, so what would be the "recipe" to get there the fastest way? Can you help the OP out a bit in thinking through the crosses and/or back crosses?

Also, establishing the "simple salmon" color was only one part of it, what do you think is involved in getting the "long tailed, fluffy feathered" salmon pattern from the faverolles x phoenix cross that the OP was asking about?

More generations, or just careful selection at the beginning?

I was talking more about the color phenotype, I am not much of a fan of the "Fluffy Feathers" and don't think a Phoenix type of bird will look good on it. Long tail can be regained by breeding back the F2s back to phoenix parent lines

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I was talking more about the color phenotype, I am not much of a fan of the "Fluffy Feathers" and don't think a Phoenix type of bird will look good on it. Long tail can be regained by breeding back the F2s back to phoenix parent lines

Thanks for the reply.

That was my gut feeling too, that getting the long tails of the phoenix and the fluffy feathering of the faverolles, was going to be an either/or proposition, and difficult or time consuming to bring both into one bird, but I was just guessing.

 

[Dpyskaty325]

I was talking more about the color phenotype, I am not much of a fan of the "Fluffy Feathers" and don't think a Phoenix type of bird will look good on it. Long tail can be regained by breeding back the F2s back to phoenix parent lines

So if I breed a solid F2 back to a Phoenix, then I might get some sort of unstable fluffy longtail-ish thing?

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

What I like to do while working on a new breed is draw out an outline of a shape you wish to obtain, a trait you wish to obtain, and a color variety you wish to obtain. Once you got that, you can select the birds that are available that best match all these traits and begin.

I created a breed called the Chesta Puree around 4 years ago but have since sold them out. I also created Queenstons which were giant birds that were Buff Columbian patterned. I haven't been creating any at the moment but am thinking of starting another project

These birds bred true? I’d love to see some pictures!

 

[BlackHackle]

These birds bred true? I’d love to see some pictures!

Yup, every chick looked just like the parent. It was quite neat. I sold quite a bit, so somewhere, they're still out there. I lost my original flock over a heavy winter and haven't yet been able to pin point those I sold to. It is very depressing.

I can try to retrieve the pictures off my old Dell Laptop, but at the moment all I have is a computer art illustration of what they looked like.

I have an account of what I used to make them, so I'm gonna try to create them again