I've never had Serama's but I also choose lil man
~MALAYSIAN SERAMA THREAD~ (PICS!!!)
- Thread starter Poulets De Cajun
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Quote:
/facepalm
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about the Malaysian type? I'm new so not a serious participant in the debate, but either way...you know how they say love it or hate it? I'm kind of on the fence....though some of the pictures that have been posted...do sort of look like mutant deformities, of which I'm not a great fan.
Malaysian type is what makes a serama a true serama. Otherwise, they are just another small run of the mill bantam. Type, type, type of which is bred in Malaysia is what seramas are SUPPOSED to be. If true Malaysian type is too extreme for you, then perhaps a nankin or an OEGB would be better suited to your tastes. I know that sounds harsh but honestly, we cannot take a good thing in what caught the USA on fire and make it into just another hoo hum bantam. Now before I get blasted for the hoo hum part, there is a distinct difference between a true malaysian serama and all the others, whatever they are called. No one can argue that point because true Malaysian Seramas are supposed to be vertical, all others are horizontal.
Edited because I wanted to reiterate I'm not trying to be snotty or rude. I'm just adamant about type for a true Malaysian Serama. Forgive me in advance if I offended anyone. But it is one of the things I've felt strongly about the most in all my years in the breed.
I agree!!!!!!!!!
I really like your article about true serama type.....I am going to be very picky about getting a GOOD pair before I invest in them. What you think about the 4H pair from Jerry Schexnayder in LA? I am doing 4H for the first time this year. I really want to breed them--is a class B or C better for this purpose?
/facepalm
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about the Malaysian type? I'm new so not a serious participant in the debate, but either way...you know how they say love it or hate it? I'm kind of on the fence....though some of the pictures that have been posted...do sort of look like mutant deformities, of which I'm not a great fan.
Malaysian type is what makes a serama a true serama. Otherwise, they are just another small run of the mill bantam. Type, type, type of which is bred in Malaysia is what seramas are SUPPOSED to be. If true Malaysian type is too extreme for you, then perhaps a nankin or an OEGB would be better suited to your tastes. I know that sounds harsh but honestly, we cannot take a good thing in what caught the USA on fire and make it into just another hoo hum bantam. Now before I get blasted for the hoo hum part, there is a distinct difference between a true malaysian serama and all the others, whatever they are called. No one can argue that point because true Malaysian Seramas are supposed to be vertical, all others are horizontal.
Edited because I wanted to reiterate I'm not trying to be snotty or rude. I'm just adamant about type for a true Malaysian Serama. Forgive me in advance if I offended anyone. But it is one of the things I've felt strongly about the most in all my years in the breed.
I agree!!!!!!!!!
I really like your article about true serama type.....I am going to be very picky about getting a GOOD pair before I invest in them. What you think about the 4H pair from Jerry Schexnayder in LA? I am doing 4H for the first time this year. I really want to breed them--is a class B or C better for this purpose?
Quote:
Malaysian type is what makes a serama a true serama. Otherwise, they are just another small run of the mill bantam. Type, type, type of which is bred in Malaysia is what seramas are SUPPOSED to be. If true Malaysian type is too extreme for you, then perhaps a nankin or an OEGB would be better suited to your tastes. I know that sounds harsh but honestly, we cannot take a good thing in what caught the USA on fire and make it into just another hoo hum bantam. Now before I get blasted for the hoo hum part, there is a distinct difference between a true malaysian serama and all the others, whatever they are called. No one can argue that point because true Malaysian Seramas are supposed to be vertical, all others are horizontal.
Edited because I wanted to reiterate I'm not trying to be snotty or rude. I'm just adamant about type for a true Malaysian Serama. Forgive me in advance if I offended anyone. But it is one of the things I've felt strongly about the most in all my years in the breed.
I agree!!!!!!!!!
I really like your article about true serama type.....I am going to be very picky about getting a GOOD pair before I invest in them. What you think about the 4H pair from Jerry Schexnayder in LA? I am doing 4H for the first time this year. I really want to breed them--is a class B or C better for this purpose?
...Did you read the rest of that whole conversation?
Anyway, if you want to breed for MALAYSIAN Type, I'm sure Jerry has a few laying around, but you may want to go to the SCNA site and look for a breeder of MALAYSIAN type instead of someone who is breeding American style.
And also if you're breeding for Malaysian type, you aren't looking for C class birds...because the Malaysian type are small as well as extremely "typey". Which was part of the American Vs Malaysian controversy....
Malaysian type is what makes a serama a true serama. Otherwise, they are just another small run of the mill bantam. Type, type, type of which is bred in Malaysia is what seramas are SUPPOSED to be. If true Malaysian type is too extreme for you, then perhaps a nankin or an OEGB would be better suited to your tastes. I know that sounds harsh but honestly, we cannot take a good thing in what caught the USA on fire and make it into just another hoo hum bantam. Now before I get blasted for the hoo hum part, there is a distinct difference between a true malaysian serama and all the others, whatever they are called. No one can argue that point because true Malaysian Seramas are supposed to be vertical, all others are horizontal.
Edited because I wanted to reiterate I'm not trying to be snotty or rude. I'm just adamant about type for a true Malaysian Serama. Forgive me in advance if I offended anyone. But it is one of the things I've felt strongly about the most in all my years in the breed.
I agree!!!!!!!!!
I really like your article about true serama type.....I am going to be very picky about getting a GOOD pair before I invest in them. What you think about the 4H pair from Jerry Schexnayder in LA? I am doing 4H for the first time this year. I really want to breed them--is a class B or C better for this purpose?
...Did you read the rest of that whole conversation?
Anyway, if you want to breed for MALAYSIAN Type, I'm sure Jerry has a few laying around, but you may want to go to the SCNA site and look for a breeder of MALAYSIAN type instead of someone who is breeding American style.
And also if you're breeding for Malaysian type, you aren't looking for C class birds...because the Malaysian type are small as well as extremely "typey". Which was part of the American Vs Malaysian controversy....
What?? what is the difference? (stupid question!) I thought seramas were all supposed to be vertical.
EDIT: I just don't want birds that look the same as OEGBs.
EDIT: I just don't want birds that look the same as OEGBs.
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Quote:
Ok, for one, I don't think that my birds look like OEGB (though I am not a serious breeder) if that was the impression you got from that conversation. Secondly, ALL serama are supposed to be vertical...the difference in size and the extremity of the pose. Which is to say, this is a malaysian bird, as per Professor Google:
This is the standard for the American Serama, courtesy of same:
Malaysian birds (I believe) are bred for type and size, and some believe that their stance is the result of being placed in a tiny vertical box for much of their lives, forced to look upwards at a tiny window of light and only let out for a short time per day. American Serama breeders are trying to get the bird accepted as a breed, and need to breed for color and other standards to make them recognizable.
Ok, for one, I don't think that my birds look like OEGB (though I am not a serious breeder) if that was the impression you got from that conversation. Secondly, ALL serama are supposed to be vertical...the difference in size and the extremity of the pose. Which is to say, this is a malaysian bird, as per Professor Google:
This is the standard for the American Serama, courtesy of same:
Malaysian birds (I believe) are bred for type and size, and some believe that their stance is the result of being placed in a tiny vertical box for much of their lives, forced to look upwards at a tiny window of light and only let out for a short time per day. American Serama breeders are trying to get the bird accepted as a breed, and need to breed for color and other standards to make them recognizable.
Quote:
I agree with you, Nekhebet, and I felt your post was very well-stated.
I love the look of the American serama, and I just think the Malaysian birds just get a bit too much for me at times. In some of them I do suspect that they had to have been box trained because they simply don't look natural. It doesn't mean I don't love typey seramas, because I do--I want my seramas vertical and looking like the American standard, I just prefer they not have the super squished, head at the base of the tail look. I just don't find it appealing. Doesn't mean I don't want seramas to look like seramas, I just prefer for them to look like American seramas when they're in my flock.
Nothing wrong with people preferring the Malaysian types, it's just not my cup of tea, and I know I'm not alone in feeling that way.
And I'm into OEGBs as well--I like both breeds of bird for what they are! I like my vertical seramas and my horizontal OEGBs. They're both great in their own ways!
I certainly didn't mean to offend any one particular person, certainly not either of you. But with SCNA and the American Serama as they now call them, they have historically promoted that A birds do not produce, type of Malaysian is too extreme, and that C & the old D class birds are of more value than the smaller more Malaysian birds. I had been a long standing member of the forums and SCNA for many, many years until this last year, and these ideas are promoted from the founder himself as well as many others. It is possible to have a very typey Malaysian bird without box training as they do in Malaysia. The grotesquely mutated birds you are referring to I assume are the dragon type birds, of which there are very few of. I don't condone box training, I like a natural bird with a Malaysian or as some American promoters prefer extreme pose, but without the dragon aspect. I was just trying to reiterate that why take a good thing and change it, especially when the breed is still a landrace. IMHO opinion SCNA has flip flopped back and forth so much with what they deem ideal that it is too early from the association level to be seeking acceptance with the ABA. But that's just my opinion gathered from the years of being a member. Leave the breed for what it is, what it was brought to America for. I fought the term American when it first started because behind the scenes that some of the newer members are not aware of is much more than the eye beholds. But that's for those who want to go back in the history of SCNA and do the research themselves. Not for here. It's true, you either love them or hate them. But (as an entirely general statement to the serama keeper population) please don't try to change what they originally were, a living work of art with extreme being the focal point. Especially at this critical point with bidding for ABA acceptance. That's why I said for those who think the true Malaysian style is too extreme, perhaps a less extreme type of bantam would be more to one's liking. Or perhaps, there will soon come a time when the American Serama doesn't much resemble it's Malaysian ancestors.
Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. I see what you mean more now. Yeah, when I say I don't like the extreme birds I mean the REALLY extreme dragon birds where they look somewhat contorted. I can't even find a good picture of one that I think is too extreme (I'm sure I could if I searched longer), but I know I've seen some before. I like seramas to be small to a certain point, though (after all, if you breed them too small you doom them health-wise and fertility-wise, but of course small is good), and of course typey birds are the best! If I didn't like birds with serama type, I would just be sticking to my OEGBs.
They have their type, and seramas have their own thing going on. I just don't want to look at a bird and fear for its life/feel like it is a horrible mutation.
It gets a little confusing talking about extreme birds versus not extreme birds, I think, because everyone has their own ideas of what these words mean and what constitutes an extreme bird and what doesn't. I don't know, maybe at some point I'll figure out what I'm trying to say exactly as well, with pictures or something.
Anyway, no hard feelings!
(EDIT: Oh, haha, it took me a while to post this after I wrote it and Nekhebet posted since. Oh well! I do prefer, between the two, the American bird in the pictures she posted. Those Malaysian birds are just a little more dragon-typed than I'm comfortable with--they just are a bit too much for me. Many of the Malaysian birds I do like, but the examples she posted are just on the borderline of uncomfortable-looking to me.)
I agree with you, Nekhebet, and I felt your post was very well-stated.
And I'm into OEGBs as well--I like both breeds of bird for what they are! I like my vertical seramas and my horizontal OEGBs. They're both great in their own ways!
I certainly didn't mean to offend any one particular person, certainly not either of you. But with SCNA and the American Serama as they now call them, they have historically promoted that A birds do not produce, type of Malaysian is too extreme, and that C & the old D class birds are of more value than the smaller more Malaysian birds. I had been a long standing member of the forums and SCNA for many, many years until this last year, and these ideas are promoted from the founder himself as well as many others. It is possible to have a very typey Malaysian bird without box training as they do in Malaysia. The grotesquely mutated birds you are referring to I assume are the dragon type birds, of which there are very few of. I don't condone box training, I like a natural bird with a Malaysian or as some American promoters prefer extreme pose, but without the dragon aspect. I was just trying to reiterate that why take a good thing and change it, especially when the breed is still a landrace. IMHO opinion SCNA has flip flopped back and forth so much with what they deem ideal that it is too early from the association level to be seeking acceptance with the ABA. But that's just my opinion gathered from the years of being a member. Leave the breed for what it is, what it was brought to America for. I fought the term American when it first started because behind the scenes that some of the newer members are not aware of is much more than the eye beholds. But that's for those who want to go back in the history of SCNA and do the research themselves. Not for here. It's true, you either love them or hate them. But (as an entirely general statement to the serama keeper population) please don't try to change what they originally were, a living work of art with extreme being the focal point. Especially at this critical point with bidding for ABA acceptance. That's why I said for those who think the true Malaysian style is too extreme, perhaps a less extreme type of bantam would be more to one's liking. Or perhaps, there will soon come a time when the American Serama doesn't much resemble it's Malaysian ancestors.
Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. I see what you mean more now. Yeah, when I say I don't like the extreme birds I mean the REALLY extreme dragon birds where they look somewhat contorted. I can't even find a good picture of one that I think is too extreme (I'm sure I could if I searched longer), but I know I've seen some before. I like seramas to be small to a certain point, though (after all, if you breed them too small you doom them health-wise and fertility-wise, but of course small is good), and of course typey birds are the best! If I didn't like birds with serama type, I would just be sticking to my OEGBs.
It gets a little confusing talking about extreme birds versus not extreme birds, I think, because everyone has their own ideas of what these words mean and what constitutes an extreme bird and what doesn't. I don't know, maybe at some point I'll figure out what I'm trying to say exactly as well, with pictures or something.
(EDIT: Oh, haha, it took me a while to post this after I wrote it and Nekhebet posted since. Oh well! I do prefer, between the two, the American bird in the pictures she posted. Those Malaysian birds are just a little more dragon-typed than I'm comfortable with--they just are a bit too much for me. Many of the Malaysian birds I do like, but the examples she posted are just on the borderline of uncomfortable-looking to me.)
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- May 19, 2009
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Although there are 4 types of Malaysian Seramas, I can't find photos of any other than the dragon, the most extreme. Most birds are probably more moderate in type. It's like reading an issue of Vogue and thinking all women look like the models in the magazine. They are likely not definitive of Malaysian type, and I don't think the US has the genes to recreate them. I have only been showing for a year, but I have yet to hear a judge say that any bird is "too extreme" for an American Serama. The most extreme bird I've seen on this thread is Austin's amazing hen, and it looks EXACTLY like the picture of the American standard. So although I doubt that we'll see the crazy anatomies of the dragon type here soon, if we breed for "extreme", I think we will end up with something nice. The UK Serama club's website has more reasonable examples of the Malasian birds, and I think that they would do very well in shows here.
http://www.ukseramaclub.co.uk/pagina23.html
http://www.ukseramaclub.co.uk/pagina23.html
Those malaysian birds----all I can say is WHOA!!!
Are these "extreme"? I think so. All are in Malaysia.
This one is for sale. The price is RM11,000 or $2970.00
As unnatural as they look in these photos, they look even more bizarre walking around:
!
This one is for sale. The price is RM11,000 or $2970.00
As unnatural as they look in these photos, they look even more bizarre walking around:
Goodness!! It looks like their heads are growing off of their tailfeathers! I also prefer the "Americanized" Serama type, the extreme Malaysian is just too contorted for my tastes.
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