Mama Heating Pad in the Brooder (Picture Heavy) - UPDATE

[jrjoplin]

Only a week and a half since I put the MHP away and I'm getting it ready again. One of my fellow Okie BYCers informed me that I was over feeding the meat birds they sent with my order. I didn't know that was a possibility but now they can barely stand and I lost one yesterday and one this morning so I asked about it. I figured two in two days was something I was doing. To spare them any more misery they'll be processed as Rock Cornish Hens and we'll have a fancy dinner sometime soon. It goes to show you're never to old to learn. I've never raised a batch just to process before and doubt I ever will now. That leaves me with 16 chickens of which at least 10 are roosters. All but one will be caponized so I will still have some large birds in the freezer down the road. That leaves 6 or less hens and that just won't do. So the all pullet order is in for delivery the week of May 23rd. In my original order I got 26. Of that I'll end up with about 16 plus the 24 additional I just ordered for a total of 40. Chicken Math strikes again.

The main coop is 12x12 so with expected losses (which means I'll have a great survival rate and overflow into the tractor) were at capacity. They'll free range in the 1/3 acre fenced chicken yard for now and I'll add a run on once the budget recovers.

I'm reworking my MHP design for this next batch. I plan on opening the back or sides so it's more of a tunnel than a cave. I'll post pictures of the new design for feedback.

 

[COChix]

Keep them penned into the new coop for a few days or even a week, close off the old one.  They will return to the place they've been sleeping the most.  That old saying "chickens always come home to roost" is pretty apt for most chickens...they want to be where all the other chickens are, so they follow the leader and most will go back to where they feel safe. 

Ditto that! Even our littles were brooder in the run in a dog kennel for the first week, then into the coop. I was modest, kept them locked up for 4 days. Worked like a charm, first night had to help them find the way so to speak, day two they did it themselves.

 

[Finelyfound]

I have been reading reading reading, but can't manage to wade through this entire thread.
I am using a hay rack for my cave frame. Azygous has been giving me some advice, and suggested I post here.
I have 25 duel purpose pullets arriving either this afternoon or in the morning.
My original plan was to use my large hay rack for more space, but after looking at other caves I thought it might be too big and opted for the smaller corner rack. The end result is pretty good, but Azygous pointed out that with the number of chicks I'm brooding I could have some chicks suffocated since there is only one exit. Now I'm really worried about suffocation. A couple of the chicks I have coming were pricy and I don't want to lose any of them to a preventable accident or newbie ignorance. She also suggested putting a pillow case over all of the wire, but I'm confused about that since it would cover up a second exit and I'm not sure how to keep it from drooping w/out cutting holes in it and attaching it with wire.
So I'm planning to make a cave from the larger rack today and just build up the bedding under it until it's the right height for the chicks to be close enough to the heating pad.
Here are some pics of what I made last night and what I have to work with today.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Also, it was mentioned I should have another water source other than the brite tap on the cooler. Is that the general consensus? Before I go buy a chick waterer.

 

[lazy gardener]

I have found that the 12 x 25 MHP is too small for 25 chicks. I have brooded 17 - 22 chicks under MHP, and find that around 2 weeks old, they get too big to all fit under MHP at the same time. So, in view of the flock mentality, they ditch the pad before they are really ready. Several nights ago, in a storm, I went out to check on them, and they were in a screaming panic. At 3 weeks old, they were smushed into the corner, trampling each other. They had stopped using the pad several days ago (at 2.5 weeks old, because they all wouldn't fit under it, so NONE of them used it), but that night, it got down to 30*, and they DID need the heat, but even more than that, they needed the sense of safety it provided. Had I not intervened, I'm sure that there would have been quite a few dead chicks in the morning. I moved MHP, and propped up one end, so that while it wasn't low enough to satisfy their heat "wants" it did allow them all to get under at the same time. I also had to give them a new towel, b/c they'd trampled the old one into the litter. Part of the reason they weren't happy with MHP was b/c the draping of the towel was missing, and they felt more vulnerable without it. Even so, I had to spend a few minutes stuffing chicks under the pad, till one bright little chick decided it was a good place to be (amazing that they can squirt out faster than you can stuff them in). That little one started trilling, and almost immediately, they went under and stayed.

Ralph tried 2 MHP in his brooder, and found that, again... due to the flock mentality, they ignored one HP, and all smooshed under the second one, resulting in some dead chicks.

So... This is my recommendation. Your frame NEEDS to have opening at front and back. I'd ditch the rigid wire in favor of something more flexible that can be bent as the chicks grow. I set my frame up so it is arched in the middle, with same height at front and back. I sew a pillow case to fit frame and HP. If you don't sew, you can wrap it in a sheet, tuck the cut ends in so they won't unravel, and securely tape it so it won't come un-done. Painters tape, duct tape or masking tape will work ok. Just be sure you don't have any areas where the fabric pulls away from the tape, as chicks will find a way to tape themselves to the frame! I went down one morning to find that one little hatchling had done so. Newly sprouted flight feathers were stuck to the tape, on both wings, with the chick hanging with wings up over his back! That was hard to peel him free, cause every time I'd get one spot of wing free, he'd start flapping, and get stuck all over again. Finally, he was freed, and no worse for the wear. However, it could have ended with a broken wing or a dead chick. Chicks are notorious for finding new and ever more ingenious ways to commit suicide.

Got 2 pads? If so, you might attach them together and make one giant MHP. Or set them up very close together, after the chicks outgrow the first one. Leave a space about 2" between the 2 pads, with an opening at either end between the pads, as well as the towel draped down a bit over the openings on the long ends of the cave. I'd opt for a single towel covering both pads, allowing the middle openings, and the openings under the draping on the long ends (4 openings) If you only have one pad (12 x 24) you could extend the frame, allowing the towel to cover more area. That way, as they grow, they can still have the cover and security of MHP, even though they are not all directly under the heat. The towel draping will help hold the heat in.

What are your night time low temps??? That will make a difference in how safely they can ditch the MHP at night? Also, larger brood size = more heat from those warm little bodies to share!

 

[Blooie]

Welcome, @Finelyfound ! LG has given you some excellent advice. I know it's hard to visualize how to wrap the whole thing in a pillow case or something because I had trouble with the concept too. I'm a visual learner, too many words and I get confused. (This from the lady who gives 2 page answers if someone asks a simple "yes" or "no" question!)

@Beekissed does hers with the pillowcase, and for the first time this year I have as well. I've never had a trapped chick, or experienced some of the issues described in the thread by others, but I don't want to, either! I'll give you a quick link to the pictures and post where Bee describes this way of doing it.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/956958/mama-heating-pad-in-the-brooder-picture-heavy-update/450

Hope this helps! You know that photos of your chicks are required here, right?

 

[OrganicFarmWife]

Only a week and a half since I put the MHP away and I'm getting it ready again. One of my fellow Okie BYCers informed me that I was over feeding the meat birds they sent with my order. I didn't know that was a possibility but now they can barely stand and I lost one yesterday and one this morning so I asked about it. I figured two in two days was something I was doing. To spare them any more misery they'll be processed as Rock Cornish Hens and we'll have a fancy dinner sometime soon. It goes to show you're never to old to learn. I've never raised a batch just to process before and doubt I ever will now. That leaves me with 16 chickens of which at least 10 are roosters. All but one will be caponized so I will still have some large birds in the freezer down the road. That leaves 6 or less hens and that just won't do. So the all pullet order is in for delivery the week of May 23rd. In my original order I got 26. Of that I'll end up with about 16 plus the 24 additional I just ordered for a total of 40. Chicken Math strikes again.

The main coop is 12x12 so with expected losses (which means I'll have a great survival rate and overflow into the tractor) were at capacity. They'll free range in the 1/3 acre fenced chicken yard for now and I'll add a run on once the budget recovers.

I'm reworking my MHP design for this next batch. I plan on opening the back or sides so it's more of a tunnel than a cave. I'll post pictures of the new design for feedback.

It frustrates me somewhat when meatbirds are sold and no one explains the differences. Yes they will over eat. If you had Cornish Cross they will eat until they cannot walk. Sorry you had to learn this way. I believe @duluthralphie and perhaps @[@]Beekissed[/@] have some experience with rationing their feed and keeping them for layers.

 

[Beekissed]

I've never held any over for layers and much for that same reason....they are not feed thrifty. But, I have rationed them each time I've raised them and forced them to hunt for their food by foraging....the right strain of meat birds will forage much, much better than any other type or breed due to their high metabolism, which drives them with excessive hunger.

I make all my birds hunt for food before they get supplemented with grain based feeds, so even while living in my layer flock for the short time they are here, they cannot overindulge until the evening meal. But they do overindulge, even with foraging all day, so I don't hold any over for breeding or laying of any kind. I like birds that burn fuel more efficiently than do the meat birds.

 

[Beekissed]

I have been reading reading reading, but can't manage to wade through this entire thread.
I am using a hay rack for my cave frame. Azygous has been giving me some advice, and suggested I post here.
I have 25 duel purpose pullets arriving either this afternoon or in the morning.
My original plan was to use my large hay rack for more space, but after looking at other caves I thought it might be too big and opted for the smaller corner rack. The end result is pretty good, but Azygous pointed out that with the number of chicks I'm brooding I could have some chicks suffocated since there is only one exit. Now I'm really worried about suffocation. A couple of the chicks I have coming were pricy and I don't want to lose any of them to a preventable accident or newbie ignorance. She also suggested putting a pillow case over all of the wire, but I'm confused about that since it would cover up a second exit and I'm not sure how to keep it from drooping w/out cutting holes in it and attaching it with wire.
So I'm planning to make a cave from the larger rack today and just build up the bedding under it until it's the right height for the chicks to be close enough to the heating pad.
Here are some pics of what I made last night and what I have to work with today.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Also, it was mentioned I should have another water source other than the brite tap on the cooler. Is that the general consensus? Before I go buy a chick waterer.

You can keep the pillow case from sagging by using some bungee cords tightly on the frame...and I mean tightly, so chicks won't get a leg stuck in those either. If you'll cruise the pic gallery attached to this thread you'll see examples of other brooder frames that might give you some ideas. I agree that they need a second access to the brooder and even more than that if you can manage it....the hen has more than one access and so do the Ecoglow brooders they have out now that stand up on legs.

As long as the chicks can have the heat against their backs without standing up all the time and the body heat from one another, they do just fine....don't know how high that second frame is, but you'd could probably get by cutting another inch off those "legs" to bring the chicks into contact with the HP, then just raise it up with little blocks of wood as they grow.

 

[Serenashome]

You can keep the pillow case from sagging by using some bungee cords tightly on the frame...and I mean tightly, so chicks won't get a leg stuck in those either. If you'll cruise the pic gallery attached to this thread you'll see examples of other brooder frames that might give you some ideas. I agree that they need a second access to the brooder and even more than that if you can manage it....the hen has more than one access and so do the Ecoglow brooders they have out now that stand up on legs.

As long as the chicks can have the heat against their backs without standing up all the time and the body heat from one another, they do just fine....don't know how high that second frame is, but you'd could probably get by cutting another inch off those "legs" to bring the chicks into contact with the HP, then just raise it up with little blocks of wood as they grow.

We took a pillowcase and slip stitched it to the wire frame front and back so it didn't sag and there's no way for them to get caught in it. It has worked like a charm. Great advice.

 

[aart]

We took a pillowcase and slip stitched it to the wire frame front and back so it didn't sag and there's no way for them to get caught in it. It has worked like a charm. Great advice.

Detailed.closeup pics of this would be great.
Did you put anything on top to protect the pad from wet poops soaking thru?