Mama Heating Pad in the Brooder (Picture Heavy) - UPDATE

[Blooie]

I am hoping it's from a vitamin deficiency. That's how I'm treating her.

It isn't very bad yet - almost like she has weak legs? She is sort of tending to walking on her hocks. Anyway, I realize she may die. But giving her vitamins isn't taking a lot of time, and these are my first chicks ever.

We shall see!

You just go right ahead and do whatever you think is the right thing to do. Didn't mean to sound discouraging!

 

[smallmonster]

You just go right ahead and do whatever you think is the right thing to do. Didn't mean to sound discouraging!

Oh, you didn't! I just meant, I am pretty pragmatic, but since she seems pretty good and this particular treatment is simple, I'm trying. However, I can see once I become more experienced and have gotten a better handle on eyeing the wellness of chickens, I wouldn't put the time/effort into every issue.

You are FAR from discouraging, in any way!

 

[casportpony]

@smallmonster
Quote:

Polyneuritis may be seen in mature birds ~3 wk after they are fed a thiamine-deficient diet. As the deficiency progresses, birds may sit on flexed legs and draw back their heads in a star-gazing position. Retraction of the head is due to paralysis of the anterior neck muscles. Soon after this stage, chickens lose the ability to stand or sit upright and topple to the floor, where they may lie with heads still retracted. Thiamine deficiency may also lead to a decrease in body temperature and respiratory rate. Testicular degeneration may be noted, and the heart may show slight atrophy. Birds consuming a thiamine-deficient diet soon show severe anorexia. They lose all interest in feed and will not resume eating unless given thiamine. If a severe deficiency has developed, thiamine must be force-fed or injected to induce the chickens to resume eating.

Thiamine deficiency is most common when poorly processed fish meals are used, because they contain thiaminase enzyme. In such situations, adding extra thiamine may be ineffective. There is no good evidence suggesting that, unlike in some mammalian species, certain Fusariummycotoxins can increase the need for supplemental thiamine. In otherwise adequate diets, deficiency is prevented by supplements of thiamine up to 4 mg/kg.
Vitamin E Deficiency

The three main disorders seen in chicks deficient in vitamin E are encephalomalacia, exudative diathesis, and muscular dystrophy. The occurrence of these conditions depends on various other dietary and environmental factors.
Encephalomalacia is seen in commercial flocks if diets are very low in vitamin E, if an antioxidant is either omitted or is not present in sufficient quantities, or if the diet contains a reasonably high level of an unstable and unsaturated fat. For exudative diathesis to occur, the diet must be deficient in both vitamin E and selenium. Signs of muscular dystrophy are rare in chicks, because the diet must be deficient in both sulfur amino acids and vitamin E. Because the sulfur amino acids are necessary for growth, a deficiency severe enough to induce muscular dystrophy is unlikely to occur under commercial conditions. Signs of exudative diathesis and muscular dystrophy can be reversed in chicks by supplementing the diet with liberal amounts of vitamin E, assuming the deficiency is not too advanced. Encephalomalacia may respond to vitamin E supplementation, depending on the extent of the damage to the cerebellum.
The classic sign of encephalomalacia is ataxia. The results from hemorrhage and edema within the granular layers of the cerebellum, with pyknosis and eventual disappearance of the Purkinje cells and separation of the granular layers of the cerebellar folia. Because of its inherently low level of vitamin E, the cerebellum is particularly susceptible to lipid peroxidation. In prevention of encephalomalacia, vitamin E functions as a biologic antioxidant. The quantitative need for vitamin E for this function depends on the amount of linoleic acid and polyunsaturated fatty acids in the diet. Over prolonged periods, antioxidants have been shown to prevent encephalomalacia in chicks when added to diets with very low levels of vitamin E or in chicks fed vitamin E–depleted purified diets. Chicks hatched from breeders that are given additional dietary vitamin E seem less susceptible to lipid peroxidation in the brain. The fact that antioxidants can help prevent encephalomalacia, but fail to prevent exudative diathesis or muscular dystrophy in chicks, strongly suggests that vitamin E is acting as an antioxidant in this situation. Exudative diathesis results in a severe edema caused by a marked increase in capillary permeability. Electrophoretic patterns of the blood show a decrease in albumin levels, whereas exudative fluids contained a protein pattern similar to that of normal blood plasma.
Vitamin E deficiency accompanied by sulfur amino acid deficiency results in severe muscular dystrophy in chicks by ~4 wk of age. This condition is characterized by degeneration of the muscle fibers, usually in the breast but sometimes also in the leg muscles. Histologic examination shows Zenker’s degeneration, with perivascular infiltration and marked accumulation of infiltrated eosinophils, lymphocytes, and histocytes. Accumulation of these cells in dystrophic tissue results in an increase in lysosomal enzymes, which appear to function in the breakdown and removal of the products of dystrophic degeneration. Initial studies involving the effects of dietary vitamin E on muscular dystrophy show that the addition of selenium at 1–5 mg/kg diet reduced the incidence of muscular dystrophy in chicks receiving a vitamin E–deficient diet that was also low in methionine and cysteine, but did not completely prevent the disease. However, selenium was completely effective in preventing muscular dystrophy in chicks when the diet contained a low level of vitamin E, which alone had been shown to have no effect on the disease. Throughout the past few years, the incidence of “muscular dystrophy–type” lesions in the breast muscle of older (>35 day) broilers has increased. Characteristic parallel white striations on the muscle are similar to those seen in chicks with muscular dystrophy, yet on analysis the diet of these birds seems adequate in vitamin E as well as selenium.
Studies with chicks on the interrelationships between antioxidants, linoleic acid, selenium, and sulfur amino acids have shown that selenium and vitamin E play supportive roles in several processes, one of which involves cysteine metabolism and its role in prevention of muscular dystrophy in chickens. Glutathione peroxidase is soluble and located in the aqueous portions of the cell, whereas vitamin E is located mainly in the hydrophobic environments of membranes and in adipose tissue and other lipid storage cells. The overlapping manner in which vitamin E and selenium function in the cellular antioxidant system suggest that they spare one another in prevention of deficiency signs.
Only stabilized fat should be used in feeds. Adequate levels of stabilized vitamin E should be used in conjunction with a commercial antioxidant and at least 0.3 ppm selenium. Signs of exudative diathesis and muscular dystrophy due to vitamin E deficiency can be reversed if treatment is begun early by administering vitamin E through the feed or drinking water. Oral administration of a single dose of vitamin E (300 IU per bird) usually causes remission.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poult...ement-poultry/vitamin-deficiencies-in-poultry


Encephalomalacia (crazy chick disease).


Quote:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/6/diseases-of-poultry/218/vitamin-e-deficiency/

Vitamin E Deficiency, Encephalomalacia, Exudative Diathesis, Muscular Dystrophy

Introduction

A spectrum of diseases of chickens and turkeys, occasionally ducklings and other birds, seen worldwide, characterised by oxidation of various tissues and caused by Vitamin E deficiency. The problem is associated with feed rancidity typically in diets with high fat. Encephalomalacia and exudative diathesis tends to be seen in young birds of 1-5 weeks of age. Muscular dystrophy is seen more frequently in older and mature birds.
Signs

• Imbalance.
• Staggering.
• Uncontrolled movements.
• Falling over.
• Paralysis.
• Ventral oedema.
• Green wings.

Post-mortem lesions

• Swollen cerebellum with areas of congestion.
• Haemorrhage.
• Necrosis.
• Blood-stained or greenish subcutaneous oedema.
• Steatitis.
• White streaks in muscle

Diagnosis

Signs, lesions, feed rancidity, histopathology, response to medication. Differentiate from Encephalomyelitis, toxicities, necrotic dermatitis.
Treatment

Vitamin E and/or selenium in feed and/or water. Broad-spectrum antibiotics where there are extensive skin lesions.
Prevention

Proper levels of vitamin E, selenium, antioxidant, good quality raw materials.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/disea...lacia-exudative-diathesis-muscular-dystrophy/

Edited to add this link:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poult.../overview-of-avian-encephalomyelitis#v9103533

Chick with encephalomyelitis
http://link.brightcove.com/services...azoAHdsuPLZN1qO7H6zG7Lv46&bctid=5138482993001
Edited to add links in spoiler.

 

[The Golden Egg5]

I have 6 almost 4 week olds and I need to get them outside soon because I have more chicks coming next week. They do not have all head feathers yet, but are mostly feathered out. I have theirs MHP turned off during the day and on 2 at night. Even at 2 I have to force them under and turn off the light before they come running out. Outside temps are about 55-60 during the day time and usually 40 at night. When should I be able to put them outside?
When it is warm out I take them out and they do great! I do not have any electricity in the coop, so putting the heat out is not an option.

 

[junebuggena]

Keep the pad off at night, they are trying to let you know that even at 2, it's too warm under there for them now.

 

[aart]

I have 6 almost 4 week olds and I need to get them outside soon because I have more chicks coming next week. They do not have all head feathers yet, but are mostly feathered out. I have theirs MHP turned off during the day and on 2 at night. Even at 2 I have to force them under and turn off the light before they come running out. Outside temps are about 55-60 during the day time and usually 40 at night. When should I be able to put them outside?
When it is warm out I take them out and they do great! I do not have any electricity in the coop, so putting the heat out is not an option.

Try a 'huddle box', put it in the brooder after turning off the heat(you might have to 'persuade' them to use it) then move it out to the coop with them.
Cardboard box with a bottom a little bigger than what they need to cuddle next to each other without piling and tall enough for them to stand in.
Cut an opening on one side a couple inches from bottom and big enough for 2-3 of them to go thru at once.
Fill the bottom with some pine shavings an inch or so deep.
This will give them a cozy place to sleep/rest, block any drafts and help hold their body heat in.

Keep the pad off at night, they are trying to let you know that even at 2, it's too warm under there for them now.

Agrees.

 

[Blooie]

Yep...they're telling you they're ready. By this age they wouldn't all fit a broody hen outside either. Huddle box is a good idea if you think they need it.

 

[The Golden Egg5]

Try a 'huddle box', put it in the brooder after turning off the heat(you might have to 'persuade' them to use it) then move it out to the coop with them.
Cardboard box with a bottom a little bigger than what they need to cuddle next to each other without piling and tall enough for them to stand in.
Cut an opening on one side a couple inches from bottom and big enough for 2-3 of them to go thru at once.
Fill the bottom with some pine shavings an inch or so deep.
This will give them a cozy place to sleep/rest, block any drafts and help hold their body heat in.

Ok! thank you! If I make the huddle box will they be able to go outside in a couple days? or when?

 

[The Golden Egg5]

Keep the pad off at night, they are trying to let you know that even at 2, it's too warm under there for them now.

Yep...they're telling you they're ready. By this age they wouldn't all fit a broody hen outside either. Huddle box is a good idea if you think they need it.

OK thank you! I will turn off their MHP tonight

 

[aart]

Quote: If at all possible I would start cracking open the windows in the brooder room as they get used to the huddle box.
Making the room as cool as possible will reduce any drastic change between inside and outside when they go to the coop.
Probably help you more than them