Managing a Dual Purpose Breed Flock for Eggs and Meat

[Kris5902]

I'm going to be focusing on carcass with my breeding too, those aren't "my" line yet.

Yes! But it’s an excellent example of what to expect when starting out... the CX came from careful selection and hybridization. Even if @pkarkos knows what to expect from a DP breed, there will need to be some info on it available to the CSA clients. If you are getting a Meat CSA box that just lists “beef, pork, chicken” and the general consumer opens it up and finds a skinny (comparatively to a “normal” CX) looking carcass, they might get a little dismayed.

You may need to include some info about preserving and restoring a heritage meat breed, or truly free ranging or pasture raising poultry. And the differences to expect in flavor, texture, and volume of meat from a bird that has lived a more natural life. A turkey farm that provided birds for the grocery store I worked at was able to very successfully market smaller, leaner, heritage turkeys with a little pamphlet and some basic info to our meat staff, in a high end Grocery Chain in one of the most affluent neighborhoods.

 

[LilyD]

Yes! But it’s an excellent example of what to expect when starting out... the CX came from careful selection and hybridization. Even if @pkarkos knows what to expect from a DP breed, there will need to be some info on it available to the CSA clients. If you are getting a Meat CSA box that just lists “beef, pork, chicken” and the general consumer opens it up and finds a skinny (comparatively to a “normal” CX) looking carcass, they might get a little dismayed.

You may need to include some info about preserving and restoring a heritage meat breed, or truly free ranging or pasture raising poultry. And the differences to expect in flavor, texture, and volume of meat from a bird that has lived a more natural life. A turkey farm that provided birds for the grocery store I worked at was able to very successfully market smaller, leaner, heritage turkeys with a little pamphlet and some basic info to our meat staff, in a high end Grocery Chain in one of the most affluent neighborhoods.

I have people up here that actually look for "heritage chickens" and won't buy the cornishX from the grocery store or a CSA it depends on how you market it and now with all the push for humane treatment raising on pasture and providing pictures of them happily out eating bugs and being chickens before they get processed helps too. There is definitely a market base for for it though people who don't want to eat a non sustainable resource.

 

[Kris5902]

I have people up here that actually look for "heritage chickens" and won't buy the cornishX from the grocery store or a CSA it depends on how you market it and now with all the push for humane treatment raising on pasture and providing pictures of them happily out eating bugs and being chickens before they get processed helps too. There is definitely a market base for for it though people who don't want to eat a non sustainable resource.

100% agreed! We have a very good and lucrative market for that in my area, which is why I’m looking at doing heritage meat breeds as well as crossing out some Red Ranger hens over doing CX. However I have to add the caveat (coming from a decade of “high end grocery store with a focus on animal welfare and natural/organic products” management experience) most customers sadly aren’t well informed on this initially, though I imagine a good percentage of an existing CSA with a focus on sustainable meats would be off to a better start than most!

 

[pkarkos]

This is one of my Rocks at around 5 months (pullet):
View attachment 1760817

This is a couple full bone-in breasts and wings from my 16-18 week cockerels I butchered last year:
View attachment 1760823

Thank you, this is very helpful! We have been talking a lot about the quantity of meat on these dual purpose breeds, but we have not talk much about the quality of the meat. I don't exactly know what makes chicken meat "good" but that looks like excellent quality to me.

 

[pkarkos]

Those are some really good pictures to help with the visual expectations of what you get with a dual purpose cockerel carcass. Even the heavier ones are much thinner in the breast, narrower and longer than most people are accustomed to seeing in “chicken”. A lot has to do with educating the consumers in your area and careful marketing to avoid customer dissatisfaction.

There was a “local” chicken (nearby island in same chain as me) in the store here yesterday, it was over 3kg!!! Huge, not heritage, and priced at $37 CAD. At first I thought it was a small turkey...

I have people up here that actually look for "heritage chickens" and won't buy the cornishX from the grocery store or a CSA it depends on how you market it and now with all the push for humane treatment raising on pasture and providing pictures of them happily out eating bugs and being chickens before they get processed helps too. There is definitely a market base for for it though people who don't want to eat a non sustainable resource.

100% agreed! We have a very good and lucrative market for that in my area, which is why I’m looking at doing heritage meat breeds as well as crossing out some Red Ranger hens over doing CX. However I have to add the caveat (coming from a decade of “high end grocery store with a focus on animal welfare and natural/organic products” management experience) most customers sadly aren’t well informed on this initially, though I imagine a good percentage of an existing CSA with a focus on sustainable meats would be off to a better start than most!

Yes, this is definitely an important factor. Luckily, in this area and with our customer base of our CSA, the animal's quality of life and the preservation of heritage breeds is more important than the amount of meat.

 

[pkarkos]

I am just posting here to get alerts when its active, I like this thread. The only 2 cents I can add is that I feel rate of growth is far more important than overall size. I would rather raise Leghorns for meat than Jersey Giants although Leghorns have very little meat they put that very little on very fast... I am not suggesting anyone get Leghorns for dual purpose just saying that some of the larger birds are way over rated for meat production unless you have access to free food for them.

Your "crossing my red ranger hens" has been very helpful! I definitely get what you are saying about growth rate. It is something that is very important to consider, but we do free range our birds and supplement their diets with feed. Of course, in the winter, they don't get much from forage even if they can even go out. But hopeful we will have the boys processed before the snows come so they can get most of what they need from free ranging.

 

[Mosey2003]

Thank you, this is very helpful! We have been talking a lot about the quantity of meat on these dual purpose breeds, but we have not talk much about the quality of the meat. I don't exactly know what makes chicken meat "good" but that looks like excellent quality to me.

It's a bit hard to tell from the angle of that picture, but I was actually pretty happy with the quantity of the breast meat on these boys. The whole carcass was about 4lbs on all of them, which is really good for a non-broiler too. The legs and thighs were quite nice. I started out with show-type Buff Orpingtons (granted, knowing what I know now, were not from an especially skilled breeder) and was NOT impressed with their carcasses. Plus, they didn't lay until almost 9 months and then didn't lay well at all. I think I have a picture of one of them I butchered, hang on...

Granted, that was a hen, but still. Also note the crooked keel, was my first clue that the breeder wasn't on top of things. They were large birds though, just didn't butcher out well at all. I'll take a Rock over an Orpington any day. The hatchery Orps lay better, naturally (as that's the goal of hatcheries) but they aren't as large. Now, a very GOOD Orpington breeder surely has some stock that's much better at being dual purpose birds, but I'm all in on the Rocks now.

 

[Mosey2003]

This was one alive:

Beautiful birds, just didn't work out like I thought they would.

 

[pkarkos]

It's a bit hard to tell from the angle of that picture, but I was actually pretty happy with the quantity of the breast meat on these boys. The whole carcass was about 4lbs on all of them, which is really good for a non-broiler too. The legs and thighs were quite nice. I started out with show-type Buff Orpingtons (granted, knowing what I know now, were not from an especially skilled breeder) and was NOT impressed with their carcasses. Plus, they didn't lay until almost 9 months and then didn't lay well at all. I think I have a picture of one of them I butchered, hang on...
View attachment 1761626
Granted, that was a hen, but still. Also note the crooked keel, was my first clue that the breeder wasn't on top of things. They were large birds though, just didn't butcher out well at all. I'll take a Rock over an Orpington any day. The hatchery Orps lay better, naturally (as that's the goal of hatcheries) but they aren't as large. Now, a very GOOD Orpington breeder surely has some stock that's much better at being dual purpose birds, but I'm all in on the Rocks now.

I am planning on trying Buff Orpingtons and I think I have found a good breeder. I really hope the Orps work out because they really are such beautiful and easy to handle birds.

 

[Mosey2003]

I am planning on trying Buff Orpingtons and I think I have found a good breeder. I really hope the Orps work out because they really are such beautiful and easy to handle birds.

They are, I liked them as birds. I like the personalities of my Rocks, too. Hatchery Rocks tend to be nasty, vicious little things to each other, but the Heritage ones are very mellow and docile.