Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[geebs]

ctaynton: the shape is FABULOUS!!!! Nice eggs.. ship them to a contest!!! that is what Geebs thinks...

 

[math ace]

Quote:
I checked the standards book out from the library, so I don't have it anymore. The definition of side spring quotes pages that you can look at pictures of side springs. . . . So, if you can get your hands on a book, you can see what they are identifying as a well defined point or projection.

I think a better picture of the back of your roos comb would help us help you clarify whether it is or is not a side spring . . . .

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
That's exactly the shape we are looking for!

Shade is nice, too!

 

[seabreeze]

Thanks Math Ace. I've received enough private PMs telling me he has other faults and he shouldn't be bred. Its not that I don't listen, I actually listen and research very intently. Before a side sprig was ever mentioned, the comments when I shared his pics were quite favorable but now they are no longer favorable. I do have several other photos that are pretty close up of his comb but at this point in time, we are no longer incubating/hatching out his chicks, we will sell the eggs to be eaten or eat them ourselves/put in dogs' dinners.

I do have several chicks ordered from one place, and eggs from a couple of different folks and my name on the list for Kim's so that is about all I can do at the moment.

But I will tell you this, the dog/cat/horse show folks have nothin' on the chicken show folks so at least its not species' specific and it has taught me some valuable lessons. I'm coming away from this with a wider understanding and greater awareness (for a myriad of reasons).

 

[math ace]

Quote:
I can feel your frustration. I think MANY folks on here have been breeding for a while AND breeding other chicken breeds too. I have been sent to the "APA STANDARD" book many time. HOWEVER, I have not found it clear enough for me as a NEWBIE to chickens. IT is written as BEV said before " so that a judge can understand it". For us newbies, there seems to be a left "unsaid" that we are suppose to Know.

I have pulled the standards for the other two breeds that I am interested in: speckled Sussex and Delawares. Other than as a VERY GENERAL guide, I don't think the standards as they are written will help me identify the BEST in my hatches. This thread has done so very much to help me refine my eye. I LOVE the COLORING and BULK of your roo. Every roo has faults. Mine has a SUPER SHORT back. I believe yours does too. I hooked my roo up with a long backed hen and the offspring are already looking better.

I recognize that some faults are like opening a genetic can of worms and are best avoided. Unfortunately, side sprigs is one of those faults. My roo does not have side sprigs and my hens do not have it, BUT I will be dippity do dah if one of my roos from my first hatching didn't have a side sprig. I will be looking closely VERY CLOSELY at the ones I have that are 1 1/2 months old now. I am looking to see if the one from last time was a fluke or if I have an issue that I need to resolve.

I REFUSE to get all uptight over breeding. I want to do it right, but I want to enjoy it to. I would of kept the side sprig roo because he was a DARLING. . . . I gues there will come a day when I will have to stop collecting useless DARLINGS, but it ain't today. I had another from that same hatch that had roach back. He was a JERK and I had no trouble sending him to freezer camp!

I think the standards are VERY LIMITED. They are written in GENERAL terms that make it hard to understand the specific no no's of a breed. I think a very good mentor is a much better asset. I am finding that mentors need to be knowledgable AND supportive. That too seems like a hard combination to come by. There are many "SMART" folks out there, but they don't have the nurturing skills to help the newbies to keep up the good fight.

At this point, I should Give a SHOUT OUT to PINK, Geebs, Cpartist, and 3riverschick who have done an excellent job of wearing the two hats - - knowledgable and supportive.

 

[seabreeze]

Thanks Ace for the support!!

I have been on several breed standard committees for dogs (rare breeds before they went AKC) and except for a few where the head piece is tantamount to *breed type*, many of them ARE generic. There are a few (such as the Dane, Doberman and some others) that are very specific and easy to understand because of illustrations of what is considered to the standard and varying shades away from the standard.

I think outlining with illustrations is a super way to help newbies comprehend what the ideal is, not just vague, ambiguous statements. When I read the DQ side sprig definition, my roo's *sprig* did not fit it since it stated *POINTED* and as I said, his is more like a *bump* versus a point (no point at all in fact).

But it doesn't matter, he does have some lovely chicks, I've posted pics before but a comment made by one person was, are these crossbred chicks? I am an AKC judge so interpreting standards compared to the dogs standing in front of me, comes down to infinitesimal detail of each point in the standard, I am truly picky about it and have a pretty good rep amongst the working breed judge community for my ability to discern structure even from photos and under a lot of puppy fuzz. So I apply that same attention to detail, comparing countless roosters to the standard as well as to the rave reviews of certain roosters. I do not let ego interfere with selecting the best but I want to know exact detail as to what is and isn't quality, DQ, borderline acceptable etc etc., If I am not thoroughly educated with unbiased information, then I cannot be a good breeder. Period.

I also understand that not every roo hatched out from a respected breeder is the mate type. I have produced puppies that other breeders swear at me for neutering/spaying them as they would have used them in their programs. I am also that way about the chickens. But again, his side sprig really does not fit the definition of *pointed* but looks more like a *fat roll* on the comb. Either way, he is not going to be siring any more chicks.

 

[geebs]

UH Math Ace... You are a rock star!!!

I too am a collector of otherwise worthless stock... LOL They are soooo cute/nice etc...

I think if you keep in mind that the marans is a dual purpose bird that helps ALOT... It really isn't that great for eggs against Wyandotte, leghorns etc.. so what that means is... It had better fit the bill for meat!!!!

If you keep in mind that it needs to be good for meat then you will look at substance...It needs a long wide back to have enough room to hang good meat... Roach back, side sprigs, split wings are bar none a culling point in any breed regardless of origin. Wry tail is another one... This is where we talk about good form in the outline of the bird on page one... It has to fit that profile.. that is number one... Keep it in your rooster collection for the Orphan Annie clan like I do.... but make sure that your eye candy doesn't foul your future plans... I love the look of some of the roosters on here but they don't fit the profile and since this is a strategic breeding thread and we are discussing how to get passed the faults we have to first look at shape. Seabreeze's bird would win a beauty contest at county fair no doubt but will likely do little to pass on the necessary traits we are looking for in the marans showpen... I am sure he has value... I would keep him myself... He looks so Brahma!!!

I think we can probably find some links online to major poultry faults... They aren't as obvious as say... having an extra leg.... but if we familiarize ourselves with them we are so much better prepared to thin down the flock and not waste feed on something that will dissappoint in the long run....

I will look around and see if I can't find something that is more helpful. If you are breeding for dark eggs don't worry to much about color balance but you will still need to watch for good form and early feathering etc... It is important to the health of the flock...


found a good link to Storey's Guide.. it has lots of advice not only for breeding.... still looking for pix http://books.google.com/books?id=Gx...wAQ#v=onepage&q=chickens major faults&f=false

 

[jlgoinggreen]

Quote:
Hi

The Marans Chicken Club is older and very active. We have just had the qualifying meet for the black coppers and will hopefully start getting approval for other colors. We have area representatives who hold egg shows at local shows where members send their eggs in to be judged. This is a good way for the public to learn about the breed and also for people to get an idea of how their eggs compare with other peoples.

The best way for you to see which club fits in with what you like is to join them both and then decide. The Yahoo group for the Marans Chicken Club USA is free and most things are discussed on this group.

Bev

Thank you Bev. I just put in a request to join their yahoo group.

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Excellent idea Geebs!

 

[jlgoinggreen]

Quote:
The MCCUSA is the one doing all the work getting the Marans recognized by the APA at present. They have spent a lot of time and money getting to where they are at present. If you ever plan on showing in an APA show you will want to go by their Proposed Standard. Don

Thank you Don. I perused through their site quickly, but didn't get a chance to read the whole thing. I had an appointment to pick up a new rooster. I did see something about that on their site though. Will go back later and finish reading everything. Lots of good info on their site.