Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

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Jan, I stand by my statment 100% on the Splash bred back into the Blue Copper. I bred Blue Cochins and lemon Blue moderns for many years. I have not found that it will reduce the color of the lacing. I realize that most of us like the darker Blue Copper but when they go into the APA most likely the medium Blue will be the color of choice.

By breeding the Splash out of the Blue Copper back to a Blue Copper it will give the Young blue Copper from this mating the much wanted medium Blue color. This is the way I was taught many year ago in breeding the Blues and it has always worked for me. We have to use some commen sense as if you have a nice even shade of Blue there would be no since in using the Splash.

If I had a splash from Blue Copper pullet and had a choice of male to breed to, I would breed her to the Blue Male that Kim owns.

I find this recommendation interesting as we have found when talking to different breeders about our Blue Andalusian breed this isn't the case. With these breeders they use only the blue and everything else is culled. One breeder even told us that they feel that the splash isn't as hardy as the black or blue and are culled right away.

I have never owned any Blue Andalusions so can not really comment on them but have raised 100's of Cochin and Modern Games and can say they must be different some how. If I were going to raise Blue Copper I would look for the best bred Splash from blue copper and buy some pullets and find the best bred Blue copper male.

This would be easy for anyone breeding Bluecopper, just single mate a splash pullet to a Blue Copper males and see what comes out of the mating. I may even look around for a splash pullet and a Blue Copper male just to see for myself.

 

[geebs]

About Blue:

I guess it does depend on the quality of the melanistics in the bird in your yard. I would use Kim's dark Blue bird... not a splash rooster to a blue hen... Her rooster does contain a nice amount of melanisers... Another bird wouldn't likely be as suitable and it also depends on the females as well... JMHO here... I guess there is different approaches to everything... I don't have dark blue like that so I would use the black (two times) on blue to get the color I was after... again... just the way I do it.

I do like the good strong lacing.... Since there is no "right" way... to each his own. I wasn't putting up a challenge here Don, just trying to see where you were coming from. I was thinking about the blue breeding in general not Kim's bird. My experience is that after several generations you end up losing the strong lacing and also the Splash birds do not have as strong of an egg color so by using the black against the blue you have a better liklihood of keeping egg color.. What are your thoughts on that.... I have lost egg color using the splash against blue...

With cochins you don't have the egg color to factor in.

Note: Blue andelusian color works the same in all the birds... not just the blue andelusian birds... Then there is the lavender gene... (totally different)

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Jan, I agree if I had the color I wanted in the Blues, then I would breed the Black and blue together. I still believe it is possible to lighten up the dark Blue with the splash. The way I breed it would be special males mated with special females. I have always used the splash in my Blue birds with good results.

If anyone has the Morley Jull book there is even a section on using all three colors in breeding Blue Andalusians.

Does anyone know if there has been any work done on the Blue Copper standard ? I see in the Poultry Press where Dickerson does not know if there will be the numbers to Qualify the wheatens in October. He say there will be something sent out to see who is taking wheatens and how many.

 

[kathyinmo]

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I frequent other poultry forums and have found this recommendation many times. Even in England, the English Orps people, highly recommend using a splash and a black to get great lacing and nice blues.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
I frequent other poultry forums and have found this recommendation many times. Even in England, the English Orps people, highly recommend using a splash and a black to get great lacing and nice blues.

Where are the genetic formula's when you need them..

The way blue works is pretty basic info. Splash to the blue bird that looks black= blue with lacing.
In the andalusion color you get black, blue and splash. I haven't heard of anyone breeding blue to blue to produce 100% blue,, but I haven't seen everything by any means.

Walt

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
I frequent other poultry forums and have found this recommendation many times. Even in England, the English Orps people, highly recommend using a splash and a black to get great lacing and nice blues.

Where are the genetic formula's when you need them..

The way blue works is pretty basic info. Splash to the blue bird that looks black= blue with lacing.
In the andalusion color you get black, blue and splash. I haven't heard of anyone breeding blue to blue to produce 100% blue,, but I haven't seen everything by any means.

Walt

In Blue Andalusian's if you use Blue to Blue matings you do get Blue, Black and Splash and from what other breeders say is to keep only the blue and cull the rest.

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I frequent other poultry forums and have found this recommendation many times. Even in England, the English Orps people, highly recommend using a splash and a black to get great lacing and nice blues.

Where are the genetic formula's when you need them..

The way blue works is pretty basic info. Splash to the blue bird that looks black= blue with lacing.
In the andalusion color you get black, blue and splash. I haven't heard of anyone breeding blue to blue to produce 100% blue,, but I haven't seen everything by any means.

Walt

I know the blue genetics:
Blue X Blue = 50% Blue, 25% Black, 25% Splash
Blue X Black = 50% Blue, 50% Black
Blue X Splash = 50% Blue, 50% Splash
Black X Black = 100% Black
Splash X Splash = 100% Splash
Splash X Black = 100% Blue

But, what I have read is what Don is saying (I think), that the splash x black = nicer lacing and coloring than the chicks from the other matings.

 

[geebs]

He was saying Splash to blue.... I would use splash to black for good lacing in other breeds but in marans you are trying to hold egg color... I got my best results using blue to black and discarding blacks from the cross. Splash to blue would create more blue and splash and blue to blue creates all three as someone stated above. I like the good lacing that is created by the blue to black... I have ended up with good dark collars that way and good deep lacing... This is only my personal experience... that is all I can speak on... With the splash the color wasn't as strong and I lost the good egg color.

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:

Oooops, I wasn't reading it correctly.

 

[snowbird]

I will just say that if you do not use the Splash in the Blue copper matings then you are wasting a lot of good birds. The splash enhance the nice even color of the Blue copper. The results will be good using Splash to both Black and Blue Copper and if you lose egg color you can usually pick it back up the second year on the Marans.

I say again if I had the DARK blue male that kim has I would go out and buy some Splash female to breed for the Blue Copper.

I have always used the splash Female.