Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[gilavina]

mornin everyone!

hey Debbi...is it freezin down your way too? Its 18* here....

blech. They're sayin no snow for at least a couple of weeks tho...so I'll take it. Maybe it will cure my temptation to start hatching eggs already haha!

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
I agree with Don here... truely the only way to eliminate it.... is to eliminate it.... Otherwise it doubles up on you when you least expect it and foils generations of work. Cull cull cull without hesitation.

Blood spots? ... found that if the eggs are fresh...some of them tend to have them from time to time... if you refrigerate... you will see less of them... Lots of theories as to why they occur.... just don't know... Fresher eggs seem to have them.

Hi Geebs! The only problem here is, how do you know if you have a bunch of carriers though? The birds will have small tell tale signs, like odd points in the combs, wavey combs, feather shafting in the breast feathers and sometimes backs, and flopped combs in the hens. Unless you maintain a closed flock, and never introduce a new bird, well you may be ok. So, in theory, all of your hens could carry the gene for it, and if you have a clean roo, you will not have the Carnation pop up. Then you see some eggs or a new studly roo you just have to have! If Mr. Studly is a carrier, and you breed him to your carrier hens with normal combs...WHAMO! You are going to have a flock of Carnations!! The trouble is, most people obsess over their roo's combs, but the hens go unchecked or unnoticed. Even in the standard, they say the hen should not be penalized for a "flopped comb" while she is laying. I really feel strongly, that the flopped comb in the hens so an indicator of her carrying the one gene. I will not breed any more pullets or hens, laying or not, with a wavey or flopped comb! I also believe, that more people have this problem than they realize, or will admit! They keep cranking out eggs and chicks, and the problem is progressing at a rapid rate. I can't tell you how many e-mails I've gotten confirming this, and from all over the country! One gal also claimed to have them in her Barnevelders! So, all I can say is to make sure you check your ladies, and when in doubt, single mate your birds. When I can finally get an entire small flock not showing or producing the problem, I will close the flock...period.

 

[snowbird]

Debbi, I think I would breed one of the pullets that shows the carnation Comb to CLYDE and see what you get. Lot of research needs to be done with this to be sure what is happening.

For the people that it is showing up the 2nd and 3rd generation would seem that it is indeed connected to both male and female.

All of my info. came from a person that was making Penne and Marans crosses.

The thing with sprig and carnation comb is that it strikes randomly. It is kinda hit and miss. The sprig is all over the word not just in the usa. If you go to any chicken show and walk down the aisle you will see sprig notations after the judging on the card.

I would be inclined to breed all the carnation comb females to clyde in single matings, I would not go with just one mating if it shows ok. Would do more to make sure before breeding to females that show no faults.

I hope you will keep notes as you go along to be able to look back and see what is going on.

 

[flgardengirl]

I have not seen any carnation combs in any of my Marans stock and I have been through many generations now. I had some side sprigs pop up in the blue coppers and the culprits have been eliminated one by a predator and one culled lol. Offspring to freezer camp and the one girl in the layer pen group not to be bred. So far no other sprigs as of yet.

The only thing I've seen close to carnation combs in my birds are the ones I intentionally bred for OE and crossed Marans to Ameraucana and back to Marans to create ultra dark OE layers. Some of those male offspring have straight combs with funky carnation type of stuff going on. I don't believe its really the same thing but shows that crossing Marans' straight combs to other breeds with different combs creates issues.

 

[stoopid]

To all of you guys freezing, I found this hiding in my yard yesterday.
Now remember, we had snow last month!

 

[pinkchick]

Don~

Why do you think that it only takes one copy of the carnation comb gene to express? Please if there is any way possible that this could be the case....please explain. I would be a happy camper if it truly was only in one of the birds and not both.

I used to think the same as you, but then I started thinking on it long and hard and thought to myself, if that were the case then I should have had carnations popping up in the years prior to this year, when the first offenders popped up, but didn't.

There is very little information out there about the Penedesenca and it's carnation comb genetics, but what I was able to read, I remember it suggesting that one copy of the gene comes from both parents in order for it to express.

Not argueing with you at all....just looking for some light at the end of the tunnel with this stupid carnation comb thing. It's absolutely discouraging.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Don, Nope! If you breed the carnation expressing hens to Clyde, you WILL get all carnation combs! If they are EXPRESSING the comb, that means the TWO GENES are already there. Breeding a two gene bird x a no gene bird will get you carnations. I plan to take lots of notes, if I live that long. This is going to take me a lot of time and space. After I get done with Clyde, then I will test his brother, Roy. And so it starts all over again!

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Hi Vicki ~ No, it's in the 30s here, but they are calling for some light snow tonight!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
I agree with Don here... truely the only way to eliminate it.... is to eliminate it.... Otherwise it doubles up on you when you least expect it and foils generations of work. Cull cull cull without hesitation.

Blood spots? ... found that if the eggs are fresh...some of them tend to have them from time to time... if you refrigerate... you will see less of them... Lots of theories as to why they occur.... just don't know... Fresher eggs seem to have them.

Hi Geebs! The only problem here is, how do you know if you have a bunch of carriers though? The birds will have small tell tale signs, like odd points in the combs, wavey combs, feather shafting in the breast feathers and sometimes backs, and flopped combs in the hens. Unless you maintain a closed flock, and never introduce a new bird, well you may be ok. So, in theory, all of your hens could carry the gene for it, and if you have a clean roo, you will not have the Carnation pop up. Then you see some eggs or a new studly roo you just have to have! If Mr. Studly is a carrier, and you breed him to your carrier hens with normal combs...WHAMO! You are going to have a flock of Carnations!! The trouble is, most people obsess over their roo's combs, but the hens go unchecked or unnoticed. Even in the standard, they say the hen should not be penalized for a "flopped comb" while she is laying. I really feel strongly, that the flopped comb in the hens so an indicator of her carrying the one gene. I will not breed any more pullets or hens, laying or not, with a wavey or flopped comb! I also believe, that more people have this problem than they realize, or will admit! They keep cranking out eggs and chicks, and the problem is progressing at a rapid rate. I can't tell you how many e-mails I've gotten confirming this, and from all over the country! One gal also claimed to have them in her Barnevelders! So, all I can say is to make sure you check your ladies, and when in doubt, single mate your birds. When I can finally get an entire small flock not showing or producing the problem, I will close the flock...period.

Debbi, a little something to think about on the pretty Carnation Comb, Say you have a yard full of tainted female and a clean male, you breed these and get yard full of clean comb off spring, Pick out the best male and put over the hens and hatch 100s chicks and most end up with carnation comb because the young male was tainted from the original hens basically giving you a double dose of Carnation. The only way to eliminate this problem after your research is sharpen the Axe.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Hi Geebs! The only problem here is, how do you know if you have a bunch of carriers though? The birds will have small tell tale signs, like odd points in the combs, wavey combs, feather shafting in the breast feathers and sometimes backs, and flopped combs in the hens. Unless you maintain a closed flock, and never introduce a new bird, well you may be ok. So, in theory, all of your hens could carry the gene for it, and if you have a clean roo, you will not have the Carnation pop up. Then you see some eggs or a new studly roo you just have to have! If Mr. Studly is a carrier, and you breed him to your carrier hens with normal combs...WHAMO! You are going to have a flock of Carnations!! The trouble is, most people obsess over their roo's combs, but the hens go unchecked or unnoticed. Even in the standard, they say the hen should not be penalized for a "flopped comb" while she is laying. I really feel strongly, that the flopped comb in the hens so an indicator of her carrying the one gene. I will not breed any more pullets or hens, laying or not, with a wavey or flopped comb! I also believe, that more people have this problem than they realize, or will admit! They keep cranking out eggs and chicks, and the problem is progressing at a rapid rate. I can't tell you how many e-mails I've gotten confirming this, and from all over the country! One gal also claimed to have them in her Barnevelders! So, all I can say is to make sure you check your ladies, and when in doubt, single mate your birds. When I can finally get an entire small flock not showing or producing the problem, I will close the flock...period.

Debbi, a little something to think about on the pretty Carnation Comb, Say you have a yard full of tainted female and a clean male, you breed these and get yard full of clean comb off spring, Pick out the best male and put over the hens and hatch 100s chicks and most end up with carnation comb because the young male was tainted from the original hens basically giving you a double dose of Carnation. The only way to eliminate this problem after your research is sharpen the Axe.

Yes! You have that right! I should've been more clear there in saying, ONLY using the main roo with no problems. The cockerel offspring will carry the one gene, so if bred back to the carrier mother, you will express carnations in their offspring, as now you have birds with TWO GENES. Even though you may get lucky enough to have one hen in that hypothetical flock, that does not carry the one gene and does not express the comb, the young cockerel will pass on one gene to the young. So to clear ALL the hens, you would have to test mate them all to be sure. Therein lies the problem with this; who has that much money, time, and space??