Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[gilavina]

First let me say that in no way is my comment on this post is meant in any way to disrespect anything anyone has said on this particular conversation at hand....but I feel that I must say something about the last comments.

As a person that does not show and does not go to shows, but participates in this breed via my own backyard and from behind my computer.......I did take a bit of offense from this statement.
I feel that I have been moving this breed forward by working with them and culling hard over the last 5 years...........I don't feel like I have held the breed back by not showing or going to shows and participating via my computer. I personally cannot afford to take my birds to shows, but I can afford to breed good quality birds from my backyard....so how does this not move the breed forward?

I know I can't be the only one that feels this way and again please understand that I am not meaning to be disrespectful. Just reading this and thinking of all the folks that do breed these birds and do not show and how they may have taken it as well.

Just my 2 cents.

You are not alone Kim, I agree with both you and Don, I was coming in to post after thinking about it while finishing chores. There are many aspects and interests in poultry breeding, whether there might be physical limitations (money, distance, etc) or personal choice on the stance of showing, or how big an operation someone can run, I believe it is in the intent of the person raising the birds to improve the quality of them that matters. Making mutually exclusive decisions about someone else's intent in their breeding program not only can be a touchy subject, but is not better than the things others are being offended by as there are so many aspects that are not evident here, because we don't get to see the daily lives of another individual.

We are all here for the birds, and moving them forward, in whatever capacity we have. I for one can not afford to go to all the shows, but do invest a very heavy portion of my time and money into raising the birds to improve them and show locally getting the Marans out here in the midwest. If things come to a place where I can do more, then great. I come to places like this to hopefully work together with other people as there are no other serious Marans poultry breeders of close enough distance to make it feasible to meet up and discuss things regularly, like we can here. While it might appear some just sit behind a computer, there is no way to know for sure someone else's intent or the daily goings or limitations or choices in their lives or any reason to place one way a person does something over another. Perhaps just a bit of grace from everyone could go a really long way.

 

[gilavina]

Some of the best Poultry breeders over the years that I have known have never showed a chicken and never will. One of my Mentors living about 25 miles from me had 25-30 breeds and sold many birds to the stringmen but never wanted to show fowl.

One thing we should all learn, myself included is that you can not read a post and tell the tone of voice intended.

Very much agreed Don, some of the best poultry breeders I've ever had the privelege of knowing never showed a day in their lives, but had some of the most amazing stock I have still ever seen to this day.

 

[Wynette]

First let me say that in no way is my comment on this post is meant in any way to disrespect anything anyone has said on this particular conversation at hand....but I feel that I must say something about the last comments.

As a person that does not show and does not go to shows, but participates in this breed via my own backyard and from behind my computer.......I did take a bit of offense from this statement.
I feel that I have been moving this breed forward by working with them and culling hard over the last 5 years...........I don't feel like I have held the breed back by not showing or going to shows and participating via my computer. I personally cannot afford to take my birds to shows, but I can afford to breed good quality birds from my backyard....so how does this not move the breed forward?

I know I can't be the only one that feels this way and again please understand that I am not meaning to be disrespectful. Just reading this and thinking of all the folks that do breed these birds and do not show and how they may have taken it as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Pink - I get what you're saying, and I was once of the same opinion. I'm not trying to discourage anyone or put anyone down that doens't exhibit - if you don't, for WHATEVER reason, that's a personal decision (it's not that costly, though, and you definitely don't need to literally show a bird to get the benefits of going to a show). Here's the thing. You can look at the SOP all day long, you can look at pictures, too, but unless you see the birds - not just your own or a handfull of others, but SEVERAL lines, side by side to compare them and see what the judges are saying about them (either via cage card or in speaking directly with the judge), how can you know with certainty that you truly are breeding for what the judges and breeders are all looking for? You cannot look at a picture and make a decision that way. There are too many things that hide in a picture. Pictures can be tampered with (I'm not implying anyone does, but it's a fact that it's easy).

Of COURSE having birds on your property (or working with folks who do), and breeding to the best of your ability using the SOP and pictures - if that's all you want to do or can do - is fine! I do believe we are all doing what we can. But until you have been to a show, and SEEN these birds firsthand, you just are not giving yourself all the material you potentially can get for breeding. That's all I'm saying. A few years ago, I DID think going to shows was not something that would help me, personally...now that I've been to several and seen the birds, made the breeder contacts, heard firsthand the trials/tribulations and successes and seen examples...I know attending shows is priceless. Anyone who feels that's just not their thing, no big deal. It's a personal decision. Again, we all do what we can.

 

[Wynette]

Wow!!! I lived 5 minutes from the fair grounds

man o man, wish I would have known

The fair grounds were really pretty - wish you could have made it, I'd have enjoyed meeting you!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
What I have learned from being an enthusiastic backyard breeder determined to do it the "right" way -- it's a WHOLE different ballgame when you actually get your bird out to the show; not just a local fair but one where you have some competition and a judge that really does know his or her way around a bird. Your birds may look spectacular running around in your yard or at the local fair but get out with the "big boys" that do it for a living and the stakes change. And the priorities and realities change. I also know being somewhat keen with the camera that the birds look completely different in real life. You cannot possibly learn how to breed a truly good bird simply sitting behind the computer. You HAVE to get out there and see the good, the bad, and the ugly - and see the ones that make it up to Champion row and you have to learn why they made it up to Champion row. A picture will NEVER capture that or replace the experience of seeing and handling the live bird.

 

[gilavina]

What I have learned from being an enthusiastic backyard breeder determined to do it the "right" way -- it's a WHOLE different ballgame when you actually get your bird out to the show; not just a local fair but one where you have some competition and a judge that really does know his or her way around a bird. Your birds may look spectacular running around in your yard or at the local fair but get out with the "big boys" that do it for a living and the stakes change. And the priorities and realities change. I also know being somewhat keen with the camera that the birds look completely different in real life. You cannot possibly learn how to breed a truly good bird simply sitting behind the computer. You HAVE to get out there and see the good, the bad, and the ugly - and see the ones that make it up to Champion row and you have to learn why they made it up to Champion row. A picture will NEVER capture that or replace the experience of seeing and handling the live bird.

I hope this is not directly pointed at me about not knowing how to breed a bird by sitting behind a computer as I started showing at APA and ABA sanctioned shows when I was 3 and have serious breeding programs going since elementary school with various breeds. I also am a very involved member of two poultry clubs and work directly with judges and well known breeders. I do get out to shows, and they are not county or state fairs. Anyone that wishes to come and look at my stock are more than welcome to come here, while I may not let you into my pens for biosecurity reasons, I will set up pens up front and bring stock up for people to look at. I understand the limitations with photography, but in no way am I afraid to show people in person and point out things I'm working on and issues they have.
If that's considered just sitting behind a computer, then I'm completely fine with that.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
It is not directly pointed at you. I know you have been there and done that. But there are others on this forum, many others, that are QUICK to judge and quick to criticize that perhaps need to put their money where their mouth is. I think there are many on this thread that believe the perfect Marans actually exists - perhaps even in their own backyard or yours - if only they could afford to get them out, they'd show us all. As you must know, in the real world, it is very hard to advance a new breed and variety. When someone actually gets their birds out there, making the effort, and is then met with nothing but critical comments about the pictures they post - and those criticisms are just about minute "details", it's hard to swallow.

 

[Wynette]

I hope this is not directly pointed at me about not knowing how to breed a bird by sitting behind a computer as I started showing at APA and ABA sanctioned shows when I was 3 and have serious breeding programs going since elementary school with various breeds. I also am a very involved member of two poultry clubs and work directly with judges and well known breeders. I do get out to shows, and they are not county or state fairs. Anyone that wishes to come and look at my stock are more than welcome to come here, while I may not let you into my pens for biosecurity reasons, I will set up pens up front and bring stock up for people to look at. I understand the limitations with photography, but in no way am I afraid to show people in person and point out things I'm working on and issues they have.
If that's considered just sitting behind a computer, then I'm completely fine with that.

Sounds like you're doing all you can per the parts I bolded above. FANTASTIC!!

 

[Wynette]

One of the things I've found going to shows and getting to know the folks breeding Marans is that they're a great bunch of people - truly! I have on many occasions overheard conversations where two people were looking at one person's bird, and evaluating it. The owner of the bird might have had trouble with something in their program, as evidenced in the bird they're looking at, and the other person was able to share their strategy to "fix" the issue, and often even offer some stock that may help the other person.

Forums are fantastic, to be sure, but you just can't the level of support I mention above online.

 

[gilavina]

It is not directly pointed at you. I know you have been there and done that. But there are others on this forum, many others, that are QUICK to judge and quick to criticize that perhaps need to put their money where their mouth is. I think there are many on this thread that believe the perfect Marans actually exists - perhaps even in their own backyard or yours - if only they could afford to get them out, they'd show us all. As you must know, in the real world, it is very hard to advance a new breed and variety. When someone actually gets their birds out there, making the effort, and is then met with nothing but critical comments about the pictures they post - and those criticisms are just about minute "details", it's hard to swallow.

I understand how that goes with criticisms, both with the animals and in my art, because they are so personal and so much of my heart and soul are wrapped up in them that is can be hard to hear or take. I honestly think that there are times, (not putting anyone down or singling out anyone) with people newer to poultry or breeding to a standard, that they ask questions because they don't know. I try hard to give people the benefit of a doubt when comments are made, and sometimes they do come from a not so great place, but most of the time I think people are genuinely curious and want to learn. The hard part is how showing, going to the exhibitions, talking in person with other breeders and judges, is not something that can be experienced any other way than doing it. I guess the way I see it, while we may not always like how something is said, including pointing out minute details and such, maybe we all need to take a few seconds to try and understand where someone is coming from, or ask questions back to see what they meant by it. I guess I look at people getting into breeding birds as another possible person to help keep the future of poultry breeding going. This is a wonderful place for people to come and learn and grow, even if we all have our imperfections and say things that others don't always appreciate. That's why I mentioned grace earlier, as I'm sure we all react and say things both here and in our lives that maybe could use some and maybe some that can be extended to others.