Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[geebs]

If I saw this I would make an appointment with a Doctor very quickly.

I don't get this... ??? (R u being funny?).... Humor from you Don.... ????

What I mean is that over time... a feather will be 1/2 white and 1/2 black as the color comes down the feather... It grows into black and the white dissappears just the like mossy dissappears. You seriously haven't seen this? And you have hatch 1000's of birds? Most of my birds are born black with very little white.. just some at the cheeks and a hair of it on the chest. The ones with a more Tuxedo type look I have found to be males usually and I got more of that look with the Davis line. I will photograph this phenominon next time it shows up.

Davis birds are definetly further along in the more correct aspect... Less of these faults Pinkchick If you want to come down sometime I usually have pens in different phases and I can show you my line versus yours... I had some mossy in the Davis line but it dissappeared as adults. I quite honestly thought they were a cross with Wellsummer the way their early feather were. It all dissappeared.​

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Debbi~ I haven't done those test matings specifically but I can tell you that I breed my Blue Copper roo who had a couple of white primaries as a juvenile to my gals that had white primaries and the offspring can go either way...some have them and some do not. I have also crossed the same roo with gals that didn't have them as juvies and again...some had them and some did not. Wish I could do this testing as you have so thoughtfully suggested but I just do not have the time or the space. I think Marans peeps could get some awfully valuable info from a test project like that. Thanks for putting your thoughts out there, it's a great idea.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
I don't get this... ??? (R u being funny?).... Humor from you Don.... ????

What I mean is that over time... a feather will be 1/2 white and 1/2 black as the color comes down the feather... It grows into black and the white dissappears just the like mossy dissappears. You seriously haven't seen this? And you have hatch 1000's of birds? Most of my birds are born black with very little white.. just some at the cheeks and a hair of it on the chest. The ones with a more Tuxedo type look I have found to be males usually and I got more of that look with the Davis line. I will photograph this phenominon next time it shows up.

Davis birds are definetly further along in the more correct aspect... Less of these faults Pinkchick If you want to come down sometime I usually have pens in different phases and I can show you my line versus yours... I had some mossy in the Davis line but it dissappeared as adults. I quite honestly thought they were a cross with Wellsummer the way their early feather were. It all dissappeared.

Yep....the "mossy" usually disappears and you know what else I've noticed that the mossy in the blues disappears faster than in the Black Coppers and they usually show less mossy than the BCM's, like only a few feathers. I wonder if this is because of the blue gene and its ability to dilute?

 

[geebs]

I think it is entirely random personally. I have used the females and male both that colored correctly as adult and have had entire batches of offspring that had no white feathers at all... Important point as Don mentioned... I am working on feather linking.. Pm me if you want more info on it.

 

[geebs]

I don't know Pinkchick I kinda assumed it was the original breeder working very hard.... She really culled the line and kept very little. I started with the Wades and it is clear from all the different breeders I got the line from that this line hadn't had that kind of attention... It can look like a different bird depending on who you get it from.... and if there is a cross such as the early Presley infusion on the Bayhorsebonne line that really throws a kink in it...

I really liked how developed the line was from Bev... You just didn't see the same kind of problems. IMOP.. The white feather thing.... the traveling... it does happen quickly in the davis line... Photograph it if you could... I am not getting the white feathers much anymore and like Don said... my offspring have very little white in them. I always thought the fat little Davis chicks were the cutest... (little butterballs) I am running out to my pen now to see if I have any with the traveling happening.

These two wings above are from the same bird and both had white. Note one is still there and yet on the other side it is gone...If you look carefully you can see a hint of white that is left as the feather "self inks" the black onto the feather as it grow.

This example is of Mossy for those of you that haven't see it... The bird was born entirely brown. Time will tell if it is black at the end.... most often a good percentage of them are, though they lack the green sheen. I will post later this birds progress in this phenominon.

Lastly this photo shows that the nearly black feather that used to be white has nearly made an entire transformation w/o molting...
Now we should all make a group appt with that Doctor.

 

[Debbi]

Geebs and Pinkchick,

As with the white feathers, is the breeding of the mossy juvies being passed on to the next generation? I guess my point is, if no one bred the juvies that had either the mossy or the white feathers, would the problem of both of these be eventually expelled from the lines, and thus not show up in the adults at all? Of course, as it stands right now, no one would probably have anything to breed. Then there's the problem of culling for the feathers, but passing on other faults like bad combs or coloring. Guess one problem at a time, but with my luck, it would be the best conformed birds with the most white/mossy feathering!

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Debbi~
I don't breed the birds that show any mossiness..they are either moved to the laying flock, sold as regular old layers or sold as culled project birds.
I believe the only way to get rid of the mossy is to not use the birds that express it, but that aside, I also don't if I'm a hundred percent sold on the idea that even if these birds are not used, that it won't pop up somewhere, because even with the mossies removed from the breeding pen, a chick will pop up with some. I believe that all breeds have something recessive in them that can pop up even with the most rigorous of breeding programs. Just like in humans several generations can go by without something popping up, say for instance twins, this may or may not be something that is genetic but they can happen any old time, or if the family has twins running heavily through the generations and suddenly 3 generations go by and not one set shows up....that can't be explained, it just happens.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Debbi, with the mossy Juvenile feathers they may disappear on the sufface but you still have the Gene under neath waiting to show itself again in future generations. If we cull these birds with the mossy and white feathers we will eventually get rid of most of it over time. The way I look at it much better to have 10 good Marans to breed young from than 100 producing culls and spreading them over the USA.

I will do the forum even better, let me know faults that you would like to see records and pictures kept of and will include in my study. I should have lots of chicks starting in December. Will start with 61 single matings as this is how many inside pens I have for single matings. Lets do an actual study and see for ourselves what we get . I plan on egg color, weight, size, overall feather color, leg color, Comb shape, am sure there will be others. Will weigh the chicks at different ages and record the weight.

 

[Debbi]

Pinkchick,

Thanks. Stuff happens, and in nature it is hard to figure out why sometimes! I'm just wondering, if the birds showing any excessive white or mossy/brown spotting as chicks were culled, would this make a difference? Even if they mature as "normal" coloring, surely what expressed itself in coloring as a chick would be passed on? Do you see what I'm trying to say? I'm afraid it sounds good in my head, but is clear as mud when it hits the page!

 

[pinkchick]

Don~
That is very nice of you to offer your time and data collected. I think I can speak for alot of the peeps here and say that it will be greatly appreciated.