Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

lildinkem ,

Hmm, that pencil trick doesn't bode well with me. The point of showing any animal, is supposedly to show the "best" of what the breed has to offer. A lot of people go to shows to find breeders from which to start their breeding programs. When someone manipulates cosmetic appearances, like plucking white feathers, or in this case bending them, that in my eyes is doing a disservice to the breed and the new, (and old!) people trying to find quality stock! Folks that buy chicks from such stock are all excited, thinking now they have a representative of the breed with a good tail set, only to raise those chicks that end up with squirrel tails! I'd be ticked, and in my book, what you proposed is cheating. Not only cheating the future buyers, but cheating the breed as a whole as well. JMHO

 

[lildinkem]

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What did not sit with me well is the APA turning our birds from 60 degree to 45 degree. That is making US Marans folks magically change our look overnite. Leaving ALOT of our best birds on the sidelines and, WHY? So, this is good for getting our best birds that still meet the REAL French SOP, and satisfy the APA in showing them our truelly best birds.
Plucking feathers will be caught by the better judges.
An APA judges a bird on how it looks. Not on how YOU work and raise your birds. Unfortuantely I don't sell. So, it is just a guess what YOU think my birds really look like.
APA judges who show use this technique.

 

[Lotsapaints]

WOW I go to bed and look at the pages...Welcome to everybody new and I love the pictures I'm off to finish my coops today and try not to melt it is going to be over 100....All show animals are "fitted" up that's the whole point of showing you exercise them and feed them and yes pluck a feather or two with horses we sweat them in areas that need slimming down to improve the overall look it's a "SHOW" for showing off your birds to their best advantage....Many show birds don't breed worth a darn goes for many other show animals too.

 

[Debbi]

Yes, it's sad but true that judges use these tricks too, but it doesn't make it right. I was a dog breeder and exhibitor for many years, and yes it's true too, that not ALL show animals breed worth a hoot. That said, it could be because that some are so cosmetically manipulated to make them look better and hide faults that will show up when bred. Conditioning an animal to present his best with what God gave him is perfectly fine, cosmetically altering, in my book, just isn't Kosher. I hated the politics then, and I do now. If you want to present the best bird, breed towards that end, or wait until you have a bird worth showing. If you show an animal with faults, let them be judged honestly, accordingly.

 

[pinkchick]

Lotsa......We use to have such fun contests in 4-H, one year at the a fair, one of the classes we could sign up for was be to take an old beat up rodeo horse and make him/her presentable for a showmanship class and actually show them in hopes to place. Many cosmetic effects/illusions if you will, were used to achieve this, one team did such a fine job that the judge asked if they were in the right class. lol....and it was a old rodeo horse...you know it was a pretty rough horse, we borrowed old tried and true horses from the rodeo contestants themselves. I used to laugh my head off watching the kids who showed cattle fluff the end of their tails with a hair dryer, AquaNet and back combing to get that perfect fluffy ball.

anyway.....so I don't post the same photo twice, for anyone interested in seeing a few select eggs that are going into the 'bator, you can sneak a peek at them here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=4876243#p4876243

 

[lildinkem]

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So do you even show your Marans? OR are just another one of the hundreds who sell for a buck?
IF you sell, then you can have a say in what someone else does with their birds, IF THEIR SELLING. I don't sell. The cockerel I GAVE to Heather Perkins, I did not bend feathers to get her to pick him over the other three. lololol
Here the APA is trying to have a say. This is a way to meet the standard for the French and still show your bird. And as another said, it is perfectly legal. And nothing you can do about it. What are you goin to do when I show him in Lebanon IN on Oct 16th? Fly in and hound the judge and say he manipulated his tail feathers? lololol I don't think so. Then it comes down to making a bird with better type, feather color, eye color, size, feathered shanks etc. That is what you, as a breeder should focus on, in addition to egg color. The Comb is like worth one point. It is hardly deal breaker for showing.
Your really giving no credit to judges at all. How can one cosmetically manipulate a dog for a show? lololol Fill me in? I always see the judges picking up and holding the dogs when they can. And for certain no Make Up will hide the flaws that make or break a Show Winner.

IF we listen to you and the APA, we will have two entirely different breeds . The French and the APA American. ALL cause of the Tail feather angle. I see it in Uk style Orpingtons and our APA style Orpingtons. Their two totally different breeds now. When one buys a pure UK they have to breed in some APA to show successfully at APA sanctioned events. I personally don't have a problem with this. And see the big picture, which is to get our birds out in the public with great size, proper color and type for those perspective folks who will buy your eggs, & get into Marans.

 

[Debbi]

LOL!! Pink, I know too well about that! In the dog world, many of the top breeders would actually put BRACES on their dogs teeth to correct bites, and there was rumor of one that had teeth IMPLANTED in their dog because he was missing 3 teeth! There were also testicle implants done for ones that had never appeared or descended! There were all kind of feeding and grooming tricks. One popular one was feeding walnut oil to darken eye color. Can you imagine how dissapointed buyers/breeders of some of those "top dogs" were when their litters or pups ended up with 3 missing teeth and yellow eyes, and one testicle??

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
So do you even show your Marans? OR are just another one of the hundreds who sell for a buck?
IF you sell, then you can have a say in what someone else does with their birds, IF THEIR SELLING. I don't sell. The cockerel I GAVE to Julie Perkins, I did not bend feathers to get her to pick him over the other three. lololol
Here the APA is trying to have a say. This is a way to meet the standard for the French and still show your bird. And as another said, it is perfectly legal. And nothing you can do about it. What are you goin to do when I show him in Lebanon IN on Oct 16th? Fly in and hound the judge and say he manipulated his tail feathers? lololol I don't think so. Then it comes down to making a bird with better type, feather color, eye color, size, feathered shanks etc. That is what you, as a breeder should focus on, in addition to egg color. The Comb is like worth one point. It is hardly deal breaker for showing.
Your really giving no credit to judges at all. How can one cosmetically manipulate a dog for a show? lololol Fill me in? I always see the judges picking up and holding the dogs when they can. And for certain no Make Up will hide the flaws that make or break a Show Winner.

IF we listen to you and the APA, we will have two entirely different breeds . The French and the APA American. ALL cause of the Tail feather angle. I see it in Uk style Orpingtons and our APA style Orpingtons. Their two totally different breeds now. When one buys a pure UK they have to breed in some APA to show successfully at APA sanctioned events. I personally don't have a problem with this. And see the big picture, which is to get our birds out in the public with great size, proper color and type for those perspective folks who will buy your eggs, & get into Marans.

Nope, don't show or sell. Mine aren't old enough yet, just hoping to get a quality flock together in case I do decide to do either. You can show your birds all you want, with whatever tricks you have to do, makes NO difference to me. As far as the APA goes, the birds will be shown in the USA, and if you agree with the APA or not, that is the standard you will have to abide with if you want to show, and win. Like I said, this is my opinion on the matter...and you have yours. And that's all I'm going to say about that

 

[lildinkem]

I am breeding for the APA. You can still show a bird with a 60 degree angle without doing a thing. I am not sure how well it will be recieved. And till I hatch another with the APA angle, like I did one outta a dozen cockerels I hatched and raised, this is a way to satify the judges and still not drastically alter our birds. Eventually we will breed for the 45 degree angle, as breeders as a whole. For now we still need our best out to show and filling cages.

 

[jeremy]

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