Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

Quote:
Cool - thanks so much. I see now. I thought "shafting" meant the quill or base of feather. I do remember Don posting something earlier that said the hackle feathers should be a solid color and not red with black border or black with red border. Which, once again, gives me something else to look for. I'm not sure if the "watch list" will ever end.

I know what you mean, Monique - it can be very frustrating, and we all need to remember that the Marans is a very new breed to the U.S. incomparison to many other breeds. I really feel like the folks in this thread are commited to bettering the breed and, eventually, with all of us working toward the same thing, these discussions will have many less items for our "check lists" that we use when looking over our breed pens!

Ruth, I had stated earlier in the past that the Black Copper Marans Hackle and Saddle feather should be a black feather with a copper border. Some say a copper feather with a black stripe.

 

[Wynette]

I totally agree w/what you're saying, Monique...however, as much as we try to avoid it, serious breeders are always going to want to where you got them. Just sayin'!

Also...there's something to be said for giving credit where it's due. JMO - don't shoot me!

 

[pinkchick]

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Monique, the W. Jeane (J. Bryant) line most definitely has the Wheaten gene in it, which has been the toughest issue with that line...breeding the wheaten back out. From my conversations with very seasoned breeders, it's extremely difficult to get that wheaten gene out, and that's the gene that causes "mossy" and white fluff. Seems most everyone has it in their flocks to some degree (me included!!)

Some breeders have abandoned that line due to the recessive wheaten and the problems it causes. But - it's also the gene that often produces the very darkest eggs, so.....

What to do?

W. Jeane and J. Bryant who?????

I'm really trying to leave names out of this.

This is my line - the Bethel Line. And, thanks to all the great info on this thread, when the select few go into individual breeding pens this Spring - it will be a new and improved line - the Bethel Line of BCMS.

You go girl!!!!!!!!!

 

[pinkchick]

I think we name names because it is undeniable that some lines show certain characteristic traits that can be used to determine lineage, reccessiveness or for reference when speaking about these traits. Well that is why I use the names anyway.

 

[ruth]

Quote:
Thanks Walt - I do have some roos that I worry have the infamous "squirrel" tail but I'm not sure. I've seen people call a tail that stands straight up a squirrel tail (I've got a few of those) but I've also read it's where the tail curls back over the body (like a squirrel, or maybe a Chow)????? Here's a pic of each of those same two roos in profile mode. I call them Jesse and James. Jesse has 5 points and too much red on breast. James has too many points but no red on chest. They were my first two BCM roos, before I bought their parent flock. I thought they had what Little Bear might have called the "just right" tails but I have so much to learn.......

Jesse and James at around 7 months:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x204/chicklady/jesse1-1.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x204/chicklady/james1.jpg

Ruth, Look at the brown breasted male, what color are his legs, from having the brown breast most of the time they are white or very light slate. I have culled all of these light colored Marans from my flock female and male. The other Marans with the white feathers, as long as you use these white feather marans you will have young with white feathers in wing and tail. If you are breeding to the proposed standard do not use these Marans.

The kind of Marans to breed to the Dark female is the heavy colored copper breast but with the Dark legs. Myself I do not use the brown breasted male for breeding. Be very careful of the brown soft feathers and the light legs as they signify that there is some Wheaten blood in the hen house. I just eliminated all the Brown fluff and light legs Marans from my flock. I had already eliminated the white wing and tail males. So I have a very small flock considering all of this.

Thanks Don - you are always very helpful. Yes, my select few is getting more and more select and fewer and fewer. When I start a real breeding program this Spring hopefully I will have a grasp on understanding who to pair together. That roo has what I call pinkish grey legs which I originally thought was the current French standard but I'm not seeing that term used for the new proposed APA standard. I have some that have dark slate legs, especially hens, and some with white legs (they also have the white undercoats and one roo even had a partially brown wing triangle). That's why these posts are so helpful. I can now walk out there and look around and say "keep" or "go" or "maybe". Having bought the parent stock of my first flock (and many, many other BCMs out there), I have been able to identify the roos and/or hens that were causing so many "issues" in this line of birds and remove them from pens. I'm hoping, by removing them from breeder pens, to one day have a much better line - the Bethel line of BCMs. I know it will take a lot of work but I'm still learning and will wait till Spring. I'll post my results.

 

[Wynette]

For sure, pink. And honestly, there are some breeders that simply do not want to introduce blood from certain lines to their own. I personally have had two folks just this year place orders, then, when they asked (after the fact) what lines mine originated from, they cancelled their orders. That's all just fine with me - I try to be super transparent about what I have and where I got them, and if folks don't like what I have, there are plenty of other breeders they can go to.

 

[Wynette]

Monique, it's most definitely a lot of work, and you're right - as time goes by, you definitely learn what you want to keep and what you can use to help...and what might be a "maybe" for the future, or to correct a past hatch. I find it all very fascinating and there's just so much to learn & know! It's mind boggling! I'm so glad to have so many helpful folks on this thread to help with our lines!

 

[ruth]

Quote:
I know what you mean, Monique - it can be very frustrating, and we all need to remember that the Marans is a very new breed to the U.S. incomparison to many other breeds. I really feel like the folks in this thread are commited to bettering the breed and, eventually, with all of us working toward the same thing, these discussions will have many less items for our "check lists" that we use when looking over our breed pens!

Ruth, I had stated earlier in the past that the Black Copper Marans Hackle and Saddle feather should be a black feather with a copper border. Some say a copper feather with a black stripe.

Thanks Don - I was going to go and try to find the post because I knew I remembered something about the color but wasn't sure I had it right. I do remember you saying that most of the birds you were seeing didn't have it.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
On the cotton tail fluff, I believe it will pass on to the male chicks if the female s are hatched from a cottontail mail.

For the tail angle I would not breed an out of type Marans to try and get the proper tail angle. It is much harder to get the broad chest and wide back and good spread between the legs than it is to get the tail angle. Getting the tail is just like most of the other faults, try and go for a happy medium when mating up the birds. Go a little either way.

Combs should be either male or female 4-5-6 points and they will improve real fast, If you have side sprig, twisted comb, or carnation comb they should be eliminated.

 

[Wynette]

Does anyone have a list of point DEDUCTIONS for things such as the tail angle? I recall it is 1/2 point for incorrect # of points in comb, but it would be most helpful to know exactly how many point deductions per fault - if someone has this & already posted, my apologies.