Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

Quote:
Don~ Breeding birds period is a crap shoot with chance hugely favoring the paradigm.
I don't recall seeing someone say that just because these birds are put together in a pen and bred that good SOP type Marans would be produced. We can try and try to match up certain "SOP" birds and mate them but we have no control over the outcome really if you think about it, we may or may not get a bird worth breeding. You can put them together and breed them and as with any other breed of birds we pick the birds that best represent the breed and proposed standard (if that is what a person is breeding for) and breed those birds back.
Some may not have the ability or desire to test mate (single mate) their birds and may just want to fly by the seat of their pants and toss caution into the wind and see what they get. It's my opinion that some of the best birds have been produced this way.

Please understand that I am not being arguementative with my reply and if I misunderstood what you were saying please clarify for me.

Kim, I understand what you are saying. We might get a super bird from a pen mating but it will almost be impossible to duplicate that Marans because we will not know what or who produced it to start with. The statement that people can breed the Blue, BC, and splash, and black inone pen has been stated on here several times and I just do not see how it would be possible in my simple mind to know what produced what.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Don~ Breeding birds period is a crap shoot with chance hugely favoring the paradigm.
I don't recall seeing someone say that just because these birds are put together in a pen and bred that good SOP type Marans would be produced. We can try and try to match up certain "SOP" birds and mate them but we have no control over the outcome really if you think about it, we may or may not get a bird worth breeding. You can put them together and breed them and as with any other breed of birds we pick the birds that best represent the breed and proposed standard (if that is what a person is breeding for) and breed those birds back.
Some may not have the ability or desire to test mate (single mate) their birds and may just want to fly by the seat of their pants and toss caution into the wind and see what they get. It's my opinion that some of the best birds have been produced this way.

Please understand that I am not being arguementative with my reply and if I misunderstood what you were saying please clarify for me.

Kim, I understand what you are saying. We might get a super bird from a pen mating but it will almost be impossible to duplicate that Marans because we will not know what or who produced it to start with. The statement that people can breed the Blue, BC, and splash, and black inone pen has been stated on here several times and I just do not see how it would be possible in my simple mind to know what produced what.

First of all let me say that I do not think that you are simple minded at all Don, in fact you bring tons and tons of valuable insights and advise to the table and I appreciate it. Thank you!


I see what you are saying about pen breeding and you are absolutely correct in thinking that we will never know who produced said nice "SOP" bird if we get one, but we can certainly take said "SOP" bird that was produced and single mate from there and try can't we?

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Debbi, I believe it is possible to produce Marans in the BC if we are willing to cull all the junk out of our Marans and quit breeding all the hens and males with obious faults. Sure it is costly to do this and if only a very few do it I believe it is a waste of time as the egg sellers will still flood the market with very poor marans. I have culled again and am down to being just about out of BC Marans. I might be wrong but I just do not see breeding the Marans with faults. I can honestly say I have never had a wheaten come from my BC. I can say though that I have had 100's that have showed obious crossing with wheaten. Have a nice day, sun shining here. Going to Ohio National to look tomorrow. Don

 

[math ace]

Quote:
So, are we talking pen breeding with one roo and lots of hens OR more than one roo and lots of hens ? ??

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Kim, I understand what you are saying. We might get a super bird from a pen mating but it will almost be impossible to duplicate that Marans because we will not know what or who produced it to start with. The statement that people can breed the Blue, BC, and splash, and black inone pen has been stated on here several times and I just do not see how it would be possible in my simple mind to know what produced what.

First of all let me say that I do not think that you are simple minded at all Don, in fact you bring tons and tons of valuable insights and advise to the table and I appreciate it. Thank you!


I see what you are saying about pen breeding and you are absolutely correct in thinking that we will never know who produced said nice "SOP" bird if we get one, but we can certainly take said "SOP" bird that was produced and single mate from there and try can't we?

Kim, In my early years with chickens it was always taught to me right or wrong that the super chickens we produced was not the valuable bird, it was the pair that produced the good bird that was valuable. If you have the mother and father you can possibly reproduce that super bird. Now you can take pullets out of a proven mating and breed them in one pen to their father or uncle and possible produce some really good birds. Don

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
So, are we talking pen breeding with one roo and lots of hens OR more than one roo and lots of hens ? ??

Morning Math!

Yes, pen breeding is with one roo or possibly 2 (depending on the size of the flock) over lots of hens.

Morning Debbi!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
So, are we talking pen breeding with one roo and lots of hens OR more than one roo and lots of hens ? ??

Lisa, with all the problems we are working with I would say I would do neither of the plans. I have to say I have bred Buff Brahma for over 30 year and they mostly come looking just alike in type and color. I mostly single mate with some sister pens and line breed all and about every five year I try and bring in some new blood that at one time originated from my yard. Have a good weekend. Don

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
First of all let me say that I do not think that you are simple minded at all Don, in fact you bring tons and tons of valuable insights and advise to the table and I appreciate it. Thank you!


I see what you are saying about pen breeding and you are absolutely correct in thinking that we will never know who produced said nice "SOP" bird if we get one, but we can certainly take said "SOP" bird that was produced and single mate from there and try can't we?

Kim, In my early years with chickens it was always taught to me right or wrong that the super chickens we produced was not the valuable bird, it was the pair that produced the good bird that was valuable. If you have the mother and father you can possibly reproduce that super bird. Now you can take pullets out of a proven mating and breed them in one pen to their father or uncle and possible produce some really good birds. Don

So in essence..... it can be beneficial to step out side of the box, yes?

 

[aceschix]

Quote:
Can we talk about this from a begginer point of view for a moment. I have my Blue Birchen Roo (that also carries gold) that I posted about 100 pages back.

2 Blue marans hens
1 Splash Marans hen
3BCM Hens

Can I really keep them all together? I thought I was going to have to keep the BCMs out and let him only breed with the B/S. What do you get from a combo of my Blue birchen roo and BCM hens? Anything disireable?

Hi Ace!

Are the 2 blue hens and splash hen solid or do they carry copper? If they are solid you can keep them with your BCM but the offspring may or may not show copper, some may have very little, some may be pretty correct (but not likely) and others will show 1 to a few feathers of copper in the hackle to none. If you are wanting to breed for coppers (blue, black, splash coppers) you would need to back cross the offspring that show copper back to the BCM. The second generation will give you some more correctly coppered birds, it can take a couple 2/3 generations to get the copper right and perhaps longer.
If you are wanting solid blue, black and splash birds it would be best in my opinion to work with a roo that has no copper or shows very very little. It is harder to breed the copper out then it is to breed it in, but remember that when copper parents are involved your offspring will have that copper gene hiding in there even if they do not show it.

The only thing you can do with that Birchen is send him to me...........................

. (really I know nothing about Birchens but I know I think this blue birchen is pretty awesome!)

I do not have a BCM roo at this time. He had yellow legs and went to freezer camp.

I think what I am seeing as my option is to only put the Blue Birchen roo in with the Blue and Spalsh hens. They may carry copper but they do not show ANY. I inspected thouroughly

What would I get by crossing this guy with the BSM hens I have in another pen? I am wondering if anything good can come from that?

I have some advice from Bev a while back but it does ot address the BCM and weather they can offer anything "good".

 

[Debbi]

Don, You lucky dog!! Have fun at the Ohio Nationals!! Take some pics of Marans there for us, please??