Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[geebs]

Knowing the Bryant line... If the egg color is what I am used to seeing out of that line... It is a pinnacle decision here as well. My personal experience with that line is that the egg color is good... I am just naturally assuming that the rooster came from a super dark egg..(that would also affect my initial decision at the outset) I probably should have thrown that out there right away... But revisiting it is good also...

What was the egg color that Bryant was hatched from? Super good??? That would weigh in first... The rooster is responsible for 1/2 of the genes that effect egg color... so we have to consider that first... then conformation, and then othere things DQ's and then faults... Faults being the least of my worries.

 

[birdygirl123]

Okay guys, I'm learning here.. so maybe someone can help. Debbie.. I am asking the same question here too.. wouldn't it be kind of like people. My great great grandfather had red hair.. I and my 3 sisters have blonde.. but my daughter has red, but that doesnt mean that my daughter will have a son or daughter with red hair..

I guess my question is the same as yours. I have 5 chicks right now. All from the same hatch. Parents had great leg feathering. 1 of the 5 has one tiny hair on its middle toe. If I take the other 4, who had the great leg feathering and breed them.. doesnt that mean that i might.. somewhere in the mix, get a chic with a little hair on the middle toe.. and couldn't that be flipped to say that if i were to breed the chick with the middle toe feather against good hens.. that he may never throw that middle feather to his offspring. They are all out of the same parents... So.. I guess, for those of us wondering.. How would we even know if the middle toe feather was an issue if we didnt see all the chicks coming from the parents?

Im not looking for a fight, just looking to understand. There will come a point in time here shortly, that I will have to choose between all theses roo's.. and I want to make sure I understand correctly how this all works..

Sometimes I'm not good with words here, hope you can understand..

Edited to add that theses were Davis hens on a Wade roo, I do believe..

 

[Cadeau]

The feathers are down the outside of his shank and outside toe, but he has 1feather that is in the crook between the outside and middle toes. No feathers down the middle toe.

Geebs - my guy isn't doing anything bad - must be someone else's?
My guy is really pleasant.

Don - what is a "thumbprint"?

Also - as for feathering and selling eggs/showing:
I've received both eggs and day olds from breeders that say they are "breeding to the standard" and then I receive/hatch and they have NO feathers or 2-3 feathers per leg. The people who sent me the day-olds knowingly sent me the babies without feathered legs after showing me beautiful parent bird pics and telling me they were "finally pleased with the produce to sell publicly."

Which is a worse "sin"??
no/very sparse feathers or too much feathering? both?

The ones with no/very sparse feathering are going in my "eating egg" pen, but do I also get rid of the ones with too much feathering?

I'm just starting out and breeding on a very small scale.
My birds are a hobby, I'm not sure if I'll ever sell, but I'm sure I'm already putting more thought into what I'm doing than many out there selling BCM eggs...learned that the hard way....

trying my best to learn.


Don - your feathering question brings up another thought...
My cockerel in question is Bryant with a splash of Presley, all my other birds are either Davis or Jesse/Jeane.

I guess only test breeding will tell....

Someone also told me that, when you cross lines, you lose some egg color, too.
Does anyone find this to be true?

 

[flgardengirl]

Quote:
Don,

You have to remember that not all of us can produce 600 chickens at a whack. We can only try to get some good birds and improve from there. It's much easier to cull enmass with huge amounts of birds, but if I culled like you do, I wouldn't have ANY birds!

Will I ever show, doubtful. Do I want SOP birds, yes. It will just take me longer to get there. I don't sell eggs or birds at this point, and won't until I have something worth passing on. It will just take me much longer to do it. I think her roo is a nice bird, despite his faults. She is starting off way better than a lot of here with him. JMHO

Debbi my friend, Only one comment why breed something that is going to produce more culls. With the leg feathering if they have none they should from breeder flock. The same for middle toe feathering. If I had to would rather breed two good Marans and hatch every egg they lay than breed culls. Don

I have to agree about that middle toe feathering. I had some good ones that had the middle toe feathering and then bred to clean legged to help balance it out and then ended up with some with the middle toe feathering or stubs and clean legged. A few had the right amt of feathering but then threw chicks with the same old middle toe and clean legs every once in a while. Now I think it is better to just not go there if at all possible LOL!
I could see if you had to in order to get some rare color or something..but bcm and bl copper, blues etc are too common to keep breeding major culls. I also think the same thing about side sprigs (side sprigs begat other side sprigs)...don't breed them! Ya live and learn. Just my opinion.

 

[geebs]

Geebs, can you clarify a few things for me? I think he is a lovely rooster, but I am seeing pink legs, not the medium slate called for in the SOP. Also, can you explain the flames in the chest? From the SOP I was under the impression that a black breast was highly desirable but copper flecking less than 10% was acceptable. What am I missing?

Thanks!

BravoThe Tarsi is clear to slate on this bird... It is a balance of the melaniser that drive the leg color. Is he a little light in the leg according to American Sop... I can't see him up close but possibly, however he is a little darker in the chest than desired and this is shown in the saddle also...THere is less color there than desired... so too much melaniser.. So in fact the bird does have enough black on it and also enough good copper balance... It would be nice if there was a little more lower on the leg and not in the back and chest and then the bird would present more appropriatly but we do know that there is enough there... Does this help?

The link to the french is on the front page and there is a tab in the french section that say "genetics" read about the strategies. It does talk about a clear tarsi. We are doing our best to "interpret" the french for the standard and use the best practice that we can. Doing so involves many generations of work. Some early birds from this line had a less desirable color at the outset but if we had culled those birds.. we wouldn't have any.... Some of the original lines in the US started with yellow and green legs... Our standard reads slate...it can be light or dark... THis is on the lighter side of things.​

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Don,

You have to remember that not all of us can produce 600 chickens at a whack. We can only try to get some good birds and improve from there. It's much easier to cull enmass with huge amounts of birds, but if I culled like you do, I wouldn't have ANY birds!

Will I ever show, doubtful. Do I want SOP birds, yes. It will just take me longer to get there. I don't sell eggs or birds at this point, and won't until I have something worth passing on. It will just take me much longer to do it. I think her roo is a nice bird, despite his faults. She is starting off way better than a lot of here with him. JMHO

Debbi my friend, Only one comment why breed something that is going to produce more culls. With the leg feathering if they have none they should from breeder flock. The same for middle toe feathering. If I had to would rather breed two good Marans and hatch every egg they lay than breed culls. Don

Don,

At this point in the game for me, a cull is a really ugly fault or DQ. Combs, shank feathering, color, and tails can all be improved upon. I wish I could cull like you do, but right now it's just not feasible to cull for an extra point in the comb or a stray feather. Can go on to the next generation with improvement as the goal. Even breeding the two best Marans you can possibly find, won't guarantee a great bunch of chicks, they will all have one fault or another. There is so much I need to work on right now, that I have to start with what bugs me the most. That would be size and substance and color in my pullets, and getting better color on my roos and lengthening their backs. Then it's on to feathered shanks, combs, and more feather color. I wish I could go right down the road and pick up a bunch of great birds, but out here, it ain't happening!

Now, if you have a perfect pair you'd like to send me, I'm game!

 

[geebs]

I had a pullet that had one little toe feather...I bred it...NONE and I mean NONE of the offspring had it... I have also been able to breed better combs forward. I know that culling is your strategy... that is fine.. Everybody takes their own road. Mine is the winding scenic one... Sure there will be culls etc... I do try to limit the outcome but ya gotta start somewhere... I would have hated to be the importer of the original Wade line!!! They were a fault treasure trove but you use what ya got... The rest of us are having to best deal with the cards drawn... I use what cards I can... I can't fold every round or I would be out of cards!!! Throw me some Aces too!!! (like Debbi)

DON: So you say you have some good marans... Let see pix!!! I would like to see some exceptional quality and know where you got it!!!

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
I am one who has to work with what she has. I've been working my line for just at 5 years now, most years I take small steps forward, sometimes I take small steps back. It is a learning process, and sharing info. here has been uber helpful, along with good relationships with longtime and respected breeders of Marans. I have the unfortuante personality that can see something of use in almost any cockerel, which makes it super difficult at cull time for me. I WILL say, however, that I am glad I held back some that others would have culled, as they ended up being extremely useful!

 

[Bravo]

Geebs, yes this helps. Thanks! Your comment on him having great shank color is what threw me off.

What do you mean about the copper flair on the breast?

Thanks!



Quote:
BravoThe Tarsi is clear to slate on this bird... It is a balance of the melaniser that drive the leg color. Is he a little light in the leg according to American Sop... I can't see him up close but possibly, however he is a little darker in the chest than desired and this is shown in the saddle also...THere is less color there than desired... so too much melaniser.. So in fact the bird does have enough black on it and also enough good copper balance... It would be nice if there was a little more lower on the leg and not in the back and chest and then the bird would present more appropriatly but we do know that there is enough there... Does this help?

The link to the french is on the front page and there is a tab in the french section that say "genetics" read about the strategies. It does talk about a clear tarsi. We are doing our best to "interpret" the french for the standard and use the best practice that we can. Doing so involves many generations of work. Some early birds from this line had a less desirable color at the outset but if we had culled those birds.. we wouldn't have any.... Some of the original lines in the US started with yellow and green legs... Our standard reads slate...it can be light or dark... THis is on the lighter side of things.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
I'm just learning all this with chickens as well. When you are dealing with genes, it's basically a crapshoot. When I was breeding dogs, I used some pretty doggy looking females, two of which, had I ever taken to a dog show would've gotten me laughed off the grounds! They weren't laughing after the pups hit the ground, one who went on to be an AM/Mex CH. and Specialty Show winner!

When I bred him to yet another ugly girl who had some things better than he did in pieces, those pups also excelled in the show ring. It's a pick your battles kind of thing, and trial and error too.