We don't "tan" here in Washington, we rust!
Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!
- Thread starter Wynette
- Start date
Quote:
I LOVE YOU!! Finally, some information! Thank you.
I've heard about the B vitamin deficiency issue being suspect. I'm going out on a limb here but I understand the medicated starter feed prevents the absorption of something (I don't remember what that is). Is it possible that the medicated feed is a problem for some birds? With the pullet that I lost early on, I was supplementing her with Polyvisol - and lots of it - and still she went down hill. I know in humans that Losec, for example, can prevent the absorption of iron in some people. Once the Losec is stopped, iron numbers go right back to normal. Could something similar be happening with chickens on medicated feed?
I went out and inspected Uriah's hocks. The hock on the affected leg may be slightly bigger and slightly flatter but it isn't horribly obvious. I suspect I did miss it for the first week or so. What I did notice was that he was lying down all the time. However, he would get up and move around and act like a normal bird occasionally so I assumed he was just lazy. He is such a big boy. I also noticed that his comb was much paler than the others. That did trouble me but I didn't have a clue what to do about it. The colour is much better now and they have been off the medicated feed for a couple of weeks. I actually HAVE the Veterinary Merck Manual and I did another search online now that I know what to search for. I'm thinking that the pullet I culled early on had perosis - in both legs. Uriah, however, likely has "twisted leg". However, both seem to be related conditions - and I'm still VERY suspicious about the medicated feed. At the very least, I probably kept Uriah on starter level protein for too long.
Just read in my own Merck Manual re: "Valgus and Varus Deformation of the Intertarsal Joint" which is clearly what Uriah has. Reducing the growth rate during the first 3 weeks reduces the incidence. I'm thinking I need to come up with a different feeding program for my freshly hatched chicks. (They also say - affected birds should be culled.)
I LOVE YOU!! Finally, some information! Thank you.
I've heard about the B vitamin deficiency issue being suspect. I'm going out on a limb here but I understand the medicated starter feed prevents the absorption of something (I don't remember what that is). Is it possible that the medicated feed is a problem for some birds? With the pullet that I lost early on, I was supplementing her with Polyvisol - and lots of it - and still she went down hill. I know in humans that Losec, for example, can prevent the absorption of iron in some people. Once the Losec is stopped, iron numbers go right back to normal. Could something similar be happening with chickens on medicated feed?
I went out and inspected Uriah's hocks. The hock on the affected leg may be slightly bigger and slightly flatter but it isn't horribly obvious. I suspect I did miss it for the first week or so. What I did notice was that he was lying down all the time. However, he would get up and move around and act like a normal bird occasionally so I assumed he was just lazy. He is such a big boy. I also noticed that his comb was much paler than the others. That did trouble me but I didn't have a clue what to do about it. The colour is much better now and they have been off the medicated feed for a couple of weeks. I actually HAVE the Veterinary Merck Manual and I did another search online now that I know what to search for. I'm thinking that the pullet I culled early on had perosis - in both legs. Uriah, however, likely has "twisted leg". However, both seem to be related conditions - and I'm still VERY suspicious about the medicated feed. At the very least, I probably kept Uriah on starter level protein for too long.
Just read in my own Merck Manual re: "Valgus and Varus Deformation of the Intertarsal Joint" which is clearly what Uriah has. Reducing the growth rate during the first 3 weeks reduces the incidence. I'm thinking I need to come up with a different feeding program for my freshly hatched chicks. (They also say - affected birds should be culled.)
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You always make me laugh, thank you for that. I live in Oregon and I'll remember that quote.
You always make me laugh, thank you for that. I live in Oregon and I'll remember that quote.
I have wondered about the medicated feed myself. It contain amprolium (same as Corid) which mimics thiamine/vit. B1. Coccidia need vit B1 in order to live. The amprolium mimics it and thus the coccidia do not get the vit B1 and they die.
I don't know enough about it to say if it is bad long term for the chicks to not have vit B1 or if they are also being denied it in the feed due to the amprolium being in there. If anyone knows the specifics please post about it.
The amounts in the medicated feed are supposed to be safe for chicks.
I do know that ducks should not have medicated chick starter. They can get a thiamine/B1 deficiency and are more sensitive to medication in general. They also can get Niacin B3 deficiency (althought I don't know if either of these is related to the medicated feed) that looks to be more related to leg problems than the thiamine/B1 deficiency that is neurological neck paralysis, star gazing, anorexia type symptoms.
Food for thought:
How Corid works
http://www.corid.com/corid_products.html
Vit B1/ Thiamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine
Thiamine B1 deficiency in poultry (Merck Manual)
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/206934.htm
*This site is very interesting and lists one of the causes of thiamine deficiency as too much amprol. Says it can actually bind thiamine.
World of Poultry and thiamine deficiency causes
http://www.worldpoultry.net/diseases/vitamin-b1--thiamin-deficiency-d269.html
I do have an older bird who has the slipped tendon. He gets around just fine by limping. I gave him a girl and he just freeranges during the day. I don't use him for breeding. DH calls him Forrest (Gump).
I don't know enough about it to say if it is bad long term for the chicks to not have vit B1 or if they are also being denied it in the feed due to the amprolium being in there. If anyone knows the specifics please post about it.
The amounts in the medicated feed are supposed to be safe for chicks.
I do know that ducks should not have medicated chick starter. They can get a thiamine/B1 deficiency and are more sensitive to medication in general. They also can get Niacin B3 deficiency (althought I don't know if either of these is related to the medicated feed) that looks to be more related to leg problems than the thiamine/B1 deficiency that is neurological neck paralysis, star gazing, anorexia type symptoms.
Food for thought:
How Corid works
http://www.corid.com/corid_products.html
Vit B1/ Thiamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine
Thiamine B1 deficiency in poultry (Merck Manual)
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/206934.htm
*This site is very interesting and lists one of the causes of thiamine deficiency as too much amprol. Says it can actually bind thiamine.
World of Poultry and thiamine deficiency causes
http://www.worldpoultry.net/diseases/vitamin-b1--thiamin-deficiency-d269.html
I do have an older bird who has the slipped tendon. He gets around just fine by limping. I gave him a girl and he just freeranges during the day. I don't use him for breeding. DH calls him Forrest (Gump).
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I'm thinking with my next batch of chicks - Marans in particular, I may try going with unmedicated feed - or feed it for less time. I guess the question then becomes, do I cull because of growth problems like I'm having to do now or do I take a chance on cocci invading my flock and cull then???? (I am VERY careful and thorough with cleaning. Strip my coop every spring. Live in a climate where it freezes hard every winter. I'm thinking I might be better to risk the cocci.)
I'm thinking with my next batch of chicks - Marans in particular, I may try going with unmedicated feed - or feed it for less time. I guess the question then becomes, do I cull because of growth problems like I'm having to do now or do I take a chance on cocci invading my flock and cull then???? (I am VERY careful and thorough with cleaning. Strip my coop every spring. Live in a climate where it freezes hard every winter. I'm thinking I might be better to risk the cocci.)
xyresicchick
Songster
Quote:
Possible, but if it's a hen I would just sell it as an egg layer to someone local. If roo, dinner. waste not the life of a hatched chick I say.
I just gave away my extra 3 marans roos... but now i wish i had brought them to the butcher a few blocks away and saved them in the freezer. It's only 5$ per bird there to eviscerate, which i don't think is a bad deal -- especially since I can't bring myself to do the deed at home. But the guy who took my roos is going to be using them for breeding, so I might have found someone else who is local to work on bantam marans with me in the future. I just have to get him some hens.
When I have chicks that die, I freeze them and then when my DH brings home orphaned baby possums from the wildlife center, they get to snack on thawed out baby chickens. they eat them bones and all! now THAT's how to "waste not!" then they have a happy healthy start and we drive 10 miles away and release them into the woods when they are big enough. baby possums grow really fast, and eat a LOT. when we get them in they are like the size of a hamster (sometimes smaller) and then they get to be the size of a large guinea pig and we let them grow. i like possums, they have hands with fingers instead of flat paws.
On the subject of coccidia, I don't use medicated feed, but if i find my chicks are being effected w/ cocci i just hit them with a dose of amprol in their water. I <3 powdered amprol. I got mine from qc supply for 15$ - but it treats 128 gallons of water. so well worth the price, i think. especially to help your chicks have a healthier start.
Possible, but if it's a hen I would just sell it as an egg layer to someone local. If roo, dinner. waste not the life of a hatched chick I say.
I just gave away my extra 3 marans roos... but now i wish i had brought them to the butcher a few blocks away and saved them in the freezer. It's only 5$ per bird there to eviscerate, which i don't think is a bad deal -- especially since I can't bring myself to do the deed at home. But the guy who took my roos is going to be using them for breeding, so I might have found someone else who is local to work on bantam marans with me in the future. I just have to get him some hens.
When I have chicks that die, I freeze them and then when my DH brings home orphaned baby possums from the wildlife center, they get to snack on thawed out baby chickens. they eat them bones and all! now THAT's how to "waste not!" then they have a happy healthy start and we drive 10 miles away and release them into the woods when they are big enough. baby possums grow really fast, and eat a LOT. when we get them in they are like the size of a hamster (sometimes smaller) and then they get to be the size of a large guinea pig and we let them grow. i like possums, they have hands with fingers instead of flat paws.
On the subject of coccidia, I don't use medicated feed, but if i find my chicks are being effected w/ cocci i just hit them with a dose of amprol in their water. I <3 powdered amprol. I got mine from qc supply for 15$ - but it treats 128 gallons of water. so well worth the price, i think. especially to help your chicks have a healthier start.
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DH calls him Forrest (Gump).
RUN, Forrest, RUN!
LOL! Sounds about like how we name our roosters:
Fuzzy- because the hens have pecked all his feathers and he has a fuzzy frizzle look to him.
Goliath-He's HUGE
Rumpy-Because he doesn't have one
Grumpy Jr-his daddy was GRUMPY, and I think you can guess why we called him that!
RUN, Forrest, RUN!
LOL! Sounds about like how we name our roosters:
Fuzzy- because the hens have pecked all his feathers and he has a fuzzy frizzle look to him.
Goliath-He's HUGE
Rumpy-Because he doesn't have one
Grumpy Jr-his daddy was GRUMPY, and I think you can guess why we called him that!
Quote:
HA! Between the rusty rain, the self tan and the overcast skies I look like a bronze flippin statue!!!
HA! Between the rusty rain, the self tan and the overcast skies I look like a bronze flippin statue!!!
Quote:
I'm thinking with my next batch of chicks - Marans in particular, I may try going with unmedicated feed - or feed it for less time. I guess the question then becomes, do I cull because of growth problems like I'm having to do now or do I take a chance on cocci invading my flock and cull then???? (I am VERY careful and thorough with cleaning. Strip my coop every spring. Live in a climate where it freezes hard every winter. I'm thinking I might be better to risk the cocci.)
You might have better luck with cocci than I do. I am very careful with cleaning etc. as well but it is in the soil here where I live. It wasn't at the old house (still in FL) but here it definitely is. If it even starts to rain and I have young chicks on the ground I treat with a low dose of Corid. Even on the medicated they catch it this year.
Hot humid conditions really cause the cocci to grow out of control fast . If you see young chicks, especially around 5 weeks or younger stooping over/standing like a vulture, not wanting to eat much, and looking pale in the comb etc. treat them for cocci quick. Blood in the stool is a late sign. The house we live in now is an old farmhouse that used to be part of a Leghorn egg farm so who knows what's in the soil here so I have to be proactive. If nothing else, it is teaching me alot about chicken health lol.
I'm thinking with my next batch of chicks - Marans in particular, I may try going with unmedicated feed - or feed it for less time. I guess the question then becomes, do I cull because of growth problems like I'm having to do now or do I take a chance on cocci invading my flock and cull then???? (I am VERY careful and thorough with cleaning. Strip my coop every spring. Live in a climate where it freezes hard every winter. I'm thinking I might be better to risk the cocci.)
You might have better luck with cocci than I do. I am very careful with cleaning etc. as well but it is in the soil here where I live. It wasn't at the old house (still in FL) but here it definitely is. If it even starts to rain and I have young chicks on the ground I treat with a low dose of Corid. Even on the medicated they catch it this year.
Hot humid conditions really cause the cocci to grow out of control fast . If you see young chicks, especially around 5 weeks or younger stooping over/standing like a vulture, not wanting to eat much, and looking pale in the comb etc. treat them for cocci quick. Blood in the stool is a late sign. The house we live in now is an old farmhouse that used to be part of a Leghorn egg farm so who knows what's in the soil here so I have to be proactive. If nothing else, it is teaching me alot about chicken health lol.
Forgot to tell you all, I found the predator that killed and took off with my best blue rooster. It was a very large red tailed hawk. He/she apparently killed the roo and took it over to the nieghbor's fenced in yard to eat it which is why I never found him in the woods and everywhere else I looked. The nieghbors had the pile of feathers in thier yard. I also found a dead key west cockeral last week that just had a head wound but nothing eaten off him. I think our dog must of run the hawk off there was no dog bite marks on the bird and our dog will protect our birds if she can get to them. She never has attacked our birds even if they eat her food she doesn't care.
So, yesterday morning, I heard a gunshot (sounded like a shotgun, not uncommon thing to hear around here) Then a several minutes later, I heard hawks calling out in the back and the chickens (in thier coops) were going nuts. I looked out and didn't see anything. Then around 7 am I heard the guineas in the front going crazy. I ran to the front door and there swooped down a huge hawk and it tried to grab a large cat right in front of our porch. My dd's stupid little cat (different cat) was running behind the hawk trying to get it. DD's cat is a good squirrel hunter but he is a small cat..hawk looked bigger than him lol.
The hawk then perched up in the tree to survey our yard. Sooo now I wonder if any of the other people around here have been having hawk problems. I know its illegal to kill them so hopefully they were just trying to scare him. I think they are pretty so I will just keep my birds locked up till later in the morning. It seems like they are only hunting early until about 7:30-ish. I see a lot of vultures and sometime eagles during the day/afternoon-evening but not usually hawks.
I am not letting anyone out to freerange until noon now lol.
So, yesterday morning, I heard a gunshot (sounded like a shotgun, not uncommon thing to hear around here) Then a several minutes later, I heard hawks calling out in the back and the chickens (in thier coops) were going nuts. I looked out and didn't see anything. Then around 7 am I heard the guineas in the front going crazy. I ran to the front door and there swooped down a huge hawk and it tried to grab a large cat right in front of our porch. My dd's stupid little cat (different cat) was running behind the hawk trying to get it. DD's cat is a good squirrel hunter but he is a small cat..hawk looked bigger than him lol.
The hawk then perched up in the tree to survey our yard. Sooo now I wonder if any of the other people around here have been having hawk problems. I know its illegal to kill them so hopefully they were just trying to scare him. I think they are pretty so I will just keep my birds locked up till later in the morning. It seems like they are only hunting early until about 7:30-ish. I see a lot of vultures and sometime eagles during the day/afternoon-evening but not usually hawks.
I am not letting anyone out to freerange until noon now lol.
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