Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

Regarding higher protein diets...... This is written by Dr. Richard Miles..... A friend shared this with me, and I think it is worthy of being passed on.


Yes, you can quote me if you wish as the University poultry nutrition professor near you. If anyone calls you can give them my name and I will be glad to talk with them.


In regards to your question about the extra protein you are feeding to your birds by feeding them the Game Bird Breeder (GBB) feed. Your mature birds, roosters and hens, do not require the extra protein that is being furnished to them as they consume the GBB feed. As you probably know the protein is made up of individual building blocks known as amino acids and your birds really have a requirement for certain of these amino acids and not protein per se. The protein is used to only furnish the amino acids into the bird just as the feed ingredients are the furnishing the protein to the diet. So, once the requirement for specific amino acids is met the birds liver will have to dismantle the extra amino acids and dispose of the nitrogen from the amino acids as waste. The waste nitrogen that is being excreted by your birds (and all birds and reptiles) is the white material in their droppings. Whenever the bird’s liver has to dispose of lots of nitrogen from the extra amino acids being furnished from the extra protein in the GBB feed it has to work overtime and in hot weather, as we are having now and for many months to come, this will be a stress on the birds because of the extra heat that is being produced in the body as the nitrogen is excreted. The layer feed will furnish the protein level which is closer to your bird’s requirement for protein and in hot weather this will make your birds more comfortable. Your birds will more than likely do very well and have good condition and performance on the commercial layer feed once you switch to the layer if you decide to do so. Your mature rooster does not need to consume a FRM medicated chick starter. The medication is a coccidiostat and mature birds are somewhat resistant to coccidiosis since they have developed some immunity to the protozoa that causes the coccidiosis. A broiler grower diet (unmedicated and with a lower percent of protein) will do fine for the rooster if you decide to switch. The big Buffs are consuming the oyster shells because they need the calcium for egg shell formation. It is a good idea for you to leave it out “free choice” for them to eat it whenever they need it. Chickens have an appetite for calcium and this means when they need it they will consume it as oyster shells. Again, there is no need for you to mix feed for them. All you have to do is to give them the commercial layer feed and they will do fine since the commercial layer feed has all of the energy and nutrients that the birds require to do well as egg layers. Keep supplementing the greens and anything else from the yard and garden and table and the birds should do well. I hope that this information has been helpful.

One further comment about protein and feathers: I am not surprised that the GBB feed is promoting good feather growth and condition since it is higher in crude protein. When considering the many factors that are required for feather formation, overall nutritional adequacy of the diet is of utmost importance during feather growth and development. Feathers consist almost completely of protein (~90%+) and when the bird is synthesizing new feathers a source of high quality protein in the diet becomes very important. High quality protein contains the amino acids in the proper quantity that will be required for feather synthesis. This is especially true at the time the bird is molting and after which will grow new feathers. However, mature feathers are not living tissue like other tissues in the bird’s body. Feathers are made up of the same type of protein as is found in finger and toe nails, claws, hoofs, horns, hair, beaks, etc. This protein is called keratin and contains a lot of sulfur in special bonds referred to in nutritional chemistry as “di-sulfide” bonds. So, there are two sulfur containing amino acids that are very important during feather formation. These amino acids are methionine and cystine. Cystine is the one that is found mostly in feathers and is made from methionine. So, methionine is really the important one and must be adequate in the diet during feather formation. Feeding the higher protein feed (i.e., GBB), which would provide more of these and other amino acids to the bird, would be very beneficial at the time the bird needs them for lots of new feather formation, however after the feathers are mature the extra protein is of no use for feather formation and is a burden on the bird’s liver as has already been discussed. If a feather is lost now and then from the bird, as we know happens at times in the barnyard, it should be able to grow back with no problem as long as the diet the bird is eating is of high quality.

Thanks for that Kathy! I know for sure, that the Game Bird breeder formula I had been feeding, has evidently changed their formula, as the chooks now won't touch it! $18.00/50# bag, and they are tossing it aside, when they used to dive into it. The one I use is by Pen Pal, and all I can say is I won't be buying any more, especially at that price! I have gone to a mixture of Chick Grower crumbles (non-medicated), Layer Crumbles, and Scratch. Since I quit the higher Game Bird crumbles, some of my hens are now molting hard, and the roos around here that all had white sickle feathers that were dying, are starting to molt them. Thankfully for the warm weather, most are able to free range, and I do try (when I can afford it!) to supplement with BOSS, oatmeal, brown rice, and other goodies like hard boiled eggs. Me thinks in these days of "more is better", we are over feeding these chooks. I can remember when chickens did what chickens do, on nothing but a handful of scratch a day, and what they got from the yard! Are we really doing our birds justice by supplying vitamins and antibiotics and crazy protein levels?? I have to wonder...

 

[kathyinmo]

Thanks for that Kathy! I know for sure, that the Game Bird breeder formula I had been feeding, has evidently changed their formula, as the chooks now won't touch it! $18.00/50# bag, and they are tossing it aside, when they used to dive into it. The one I use is by Pen Pal, and all I can say is I won't be buying any more, especially at that price! I have gone to a mixture of Chick Grower crumbles (non-medicated), Layer Crumbles, and Scratch. Since I quit the higher Game Bird crumbles, some of my hens are now molting hard, and the roos around here that all had white sickle feathers that were dying, are starting to molt them. Thankfully for the warm weather, most are able to free range, and I do try (when I can afford it!) to supplement with BOSS, oatmeal, brown rice, and other goodies like hard boiled eggs. Me thinks in these days of "more is better", we are over feeding these chooks. I can remember when chickens did what chickens do, on nothing but a handful of scratch a day, and what they got from the yard! Are we really doing our birds justice by supplying vitamins and antibiotics and crazy protein levels?? I have to wonder...

I have found that too much protein is worse than not enough protein. Personally, I don't like to go above 20% max. I do like the Game Bird feed, but I add scratch and Boss and other stuff (spices) in it. 16-18% is what I like.

 

[Debbi]

Kathy, what brand of Game Bird do you use? I went from one sack to another, and it's like a whole new ball game, they won't touch it! And that's after the price jumped from $14.95/50# to $18.00/50#. Newer formulas, do not mean better tasting? Doesn't matter how great it may be for them nutritionally if they won't eat it! LOL!

 

[kathyinmo]

I feed this: Kent Feed High Flyer Breeder formula.
I do like the game bird feed, and I like the additional vitamins and minerals in the "breeder" formula. I also add goodies in with it at times. I keep oyster shell free choice, as well as grit. Clean water is a must, too. I don't add a bunch of stuff to the water anymore.

• 
  
  High Flyer
  
  Breeder
  
  A complete feed for pheasant, quail, chukar, and turkey breeders to be fed during the laying season. Available as a pellet.
  
  Guaranteed Analysis
  Crude Protein, min
  
  17.0%​
  Lysine, min
  
  0.9%​
  Methionine, min
  
  0.45%​
  Crude Fat, min
  
  3.5%​
  Crude Fiber, max
  
  4.0%​
  Calcium (Ca), min
  
  2.5%​
  Calcium (Ca), max
  
  3.5%​
  Phosphorus (P), min
  
  0.75%​
  Salt (NaCl), min
  
  0.2%​
  Salt (NaCl), max
  
  0.7%​
  Vitamin A, min
  
  7500 IU/lb​
  Vitamin D3, min
  
  1960 IU/lb​
  Vitamin E, min
  
  25 IU/lb​

 

[DMRippy]

Donna has neat projects!

I didn't start this project.... I just inherited it

from Raven1. These girls are laying machines too! I think I have 10 cuckoo eggs already. Just didn't expect them to lay that well.

They need to go talk with the Blue and Black coppers

 

[DMRippy]

are those blue cuckoos or silver cuckoos you are talking about? You have both, right? Tonight I'll be merging my youngest cuckoos in with the older flocks of birds from the first hatch of last year. That group of birds are really good about absorbing in new members of all ages with not a whole lot of drama. I just need more space for these cuckoos to finish off. There are some just beautiful cuckoo girls in this group I can't wait to see how they finish out.

Would a silver give you something different? What?

 

[gilavina]

well I thought that they are blue cuckoos but maybe they are both- I will have to try and get a good picture and post it and see what you think. I know that the 2 are regular cuckoos in appereance but might be carrying hidden genes for color

I'm confused... I thought you had silver cuckoos and also were working on blue cuckoos as well? Or am I not understanding what you are saying?

 

[gilavina]

I didn't start this project.... I just inherited it

from Raven1. These girls are laying machines too! I think I have 10 cuckoo eggs already. Just didn't expect them to lay that well.

They need to go talk with the Blue and Black coppers

my cuckoos lay like crazy as well...but for the most part all of my Marans varieties are really good layers. I have been thinking on it a bit since I don't do anything special with my birds and they have come from all over the place.

 

[gilavina]

Would a silver give you something different? What?

I was just asking if she had both silver (regular black cuckoos) and blue cuckoos. Working with the silver cuckoos crossed onto the blues will help to improve the cuckoo patterning. I think maybe I'm confusing everyone, cause now I'm confused haha

 

[DMRippy]

I was just asking if she had both silver (regular black cuckoos) and blue cuckoos. Working with the silver cuckoos crossed onto the blues will help to improve the cuckoo patterning. I think maybe I'm confusing everyone, cause now I'm confused haha

OK so there is a silver cuckoo, golden cuckoo and reg cuckoo, blue cuckoo anything else?