Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

Walt , there were several of these males all brothers and we were asked to pick a couple for possible breeders. I was reluctant at first because they had so many faults like narrow back, narrow chest, major comb issues. Stuff that should not be bred together when breeding Marans especially brother-sister. I am not a brother-sister breeder to begin with.

 

[gilavina]

Hey Walt, since we are on the subject of combs. What is your viewpoint on waves in the comb? The opinions are pretty varied, so would love to hear what you have to say. I don't have a problem using those that are stellar in type and size, I just am careful who I pair them with comb wise and select the offspring that don't show the wave, but still have nice body type.

 

[Debbi]

I didn't see the original discussion, but what is a DQ and what I would use to breed from would be two different things. I would still go with the best type bird if no others were close in conformation or if the comb was the least of the problems in the birds I used to breed from. As you know there arte a lot more important things to be fixed in the Marans than the combs. In some other breeds I would work on everything at once, but these birds still need a ton of work. The Del people finally got off their comb obsession and I can already see an improvement in the breed. Some are recreations, but even the originals now have better bodies than a year ago.

I was only asked to clarify the comb issue, so I am at a disadvantage concerning the rest of the conversation. No one mentioned thumprint to me, but if it had a good body I would use a bird with a thumbprint over a narrow un-typy bird with a tail that stuck straight up.

Walt

That is unless you get a Carnation comb on your Marans, which is an indication of the Penedesenca blood coming in from somewhere. I cull immediately now for any sprigs or Carnations when they start to show up, period! I don't care how nice the bird is, they are gone. I have had some with wrinkles, thumbprints, slight bends, and too many or too few points which don't bother me nearly as much, as long as they have the body and type to pass forward, the combs can be worked on. Thanks for your input Walt, we all need to keep things in perspective, but also need to watch for the DQs that will pass on.

 

[snowbird]

The comb issues being discussed are not "major" faults.

When it comes to Marans , all faults that breed forward and sooner or later will have to be dealt with. These are all 1-2 point deduction and that is about as major as a fault can get.

 

[fowlman01]

To be clear....I am not advocating using birds with faults to breed from, but if you only have so many birds in your flock and can't get anything better, you start with what you have and use good breeding practices to better the quality. Good breeding practices do not include just throwing a male and female in the cage and propagating chickens. It is keeping very good records and using common breeding techniques, producing large numbers of birds and heavy culling.

You have nothing until you have the proper body for the breed and you folks are a long way from that..for the most part.

Walt

 

[Wynette]

I appreciate your opinion, Don, but in my opinion, it's absurd, as this point in the Marans breeding, to expect perfect combs. I breed many & cull heavily like most do; and I am not saying it's okay to use a bird that is not to type. But start with TYPE. Move forward slowly. It's working for the Delawares, it can work for Marans, too! NONE of us have all the answers. It's what this thread is about - all of us offering opinions & feedback; everyone must choose what works best in their breeding programs, and more information is best - and will move the breed forward.

 

[snowbird]

Hey Walt, since we are on the subject of combs. What is your viewpoint on waves in the comb? The opinions are pretty varied, so would love to hear what you have to say. I don't have a problem using those that are stellar in type and size, I just am careful who I pair them with comb wise and select the offspring that don't show the wave, but still have nice body type.

Vicki, the twisted Comb you talk about is 1/2-1 point off. But this will breed forward. With the type and body shape of your fowl you could use one of these if you didn't have one with good comb.

 

[snowbird]

I appreciate your opinion, Don, but in my opinion, it's absurd, as this point in the Marans breeding, to expect perfect combs. I breed many & cull heavily like most do; and I am not saying it's okay to use a bird that is not to type. But start with TYPE. Move forward slowly. It's working for the Delawares, it can work for Marans, too! NONE of us have all the answers. It's what this thread is about - all of us offering opinions & feedback; everyone must choose what works best in their breeding programs, and more information is best - and will move the breed forward.

Wynette, All I have done is give my opinion and nothing else. I know from experience that there are different ways to accomplish the same end product.

 

[speckledhen]

I appreciate your opinion, Don, but in my opinion, it's absurd, as this point in the Marans breeding, to expect perfect combs. I breed many & cull heavily like most do; and I am not saying it's okay to use a bird that is not to type. But start with TYPE. Move forward slowly. It's working for the Delawares, it can work for Marans, too! NONE of us have all the answers. It's what this thread is about - all of us offering opinions & feedback; everyone must choose what works best in their breeding programs, and more information is best - and will move the breed forward.

Agreed, Wynette and Walt. I have no interest in Marans, but Delawares are what I know something about, as far as a culling process, since they are coming back from near extinction and there were numerous substandard birds out there (and still are). If you cull for every possible flaw, you have nothing to start from. Combs are not a major flaw when you are at the beginning of your project. Body type is paramount, as all breeders know.
I know what you mean, Wynette. There's nothing like a spectacular 5 pointer on a great looking rooster to top it all off. We just sometimes have to watch ourselves that we aren't dazzled by that if the bird it sits on top of is narrow bodied and puny-looking.

My own Delaware rooster has a beautiful, balanced comb with one pesky extra tiny half-point, but he's produced many sons with gorgeous 5 pointers when paired with his 5 point and 6 point combed hens, so the potential is there even when the parent isn't perfect himself.

 

[gilavina]

Vicki, the twisted Comb you talk about is 1/2-1 point off. But this will breed forward. With the type and body shape of your fowl you could use one of these if you didn't have one with good comb.

That's kind of what I've been workin on. Its in a couple of those really nice black birchen pullets I have, a bit of wave starting on the girls now that they are laying, and don't know if its due to laying, or just their development. They are too nice for me to toss out for the comb and have two boys that both have great combs, so am hoping through careful mating and selection, I will be able to keep their good qualities, but get a handful of birds from the mating with combs more like the cockerels. I don't think I'll work on it til next year, but am planning ahead as I've had luck with it in other single comb breeds I've worked with.