Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Wynette]

They do appear to be Black Coppers to me, but poor examples of them.

I think that leg issue is the same one that I have seen on some of my older cock birds. When they get it, they are typically about 18 months old. I took a bunch of pictures and sent them off to the head of the Michigan State University's Avian Genetics dept., and heard back from Dr. R. M. Fulton - I asked (and received) permission to post his reply:

I have had a chance to review the pictures - If in fact, you have no response to treatment for scaley leg mite [it is most definitely not scaley leg mite) then there are 2 diseases that can cause this. Xanthomatosis, which is an accumulation of cholesterol and/or lipids in the skin. There is no treatment nor prevention for this condition. The other would be Marek's disease....which isn't very likely. It could still be scaley leg mite if the birds are re-infected. The reason for only males is puzzling although it could be related to hormones levels. My best guess would be xanthomatosis.

Sorry I am late about getting back to you. You may post my reply on the forum if you wish. The exact cause of xanthomatosis is not known. It is caused by a problem in lipid and/or cholesterol metabolism. People have speculated that it could be an unknown hydrocarbon in the feed (possible but not likely). More work needs to be done.

Regards,

R. M. Fulton, D.V.M., Ph.D.

 

[desertmarcy]

I am fairly new at this but I agree with the others. Find a different roo. Its hard but you will be happy in the end. If it was just a couple of minor things then you may be able to work with it if you didnt have a choice. But these guys I hate saying it are a mess. I dont know what it is but these guys look like they are the end result of a cross. Something is out of wack and I cant put my finger on it. Can you help me out here Don? Does it look like he is from a cross. I dont know if its the colors or the body or the hackles. Cant figure it out. Plus from looking at the legs you have a health concern.

What do you see about the legs that is a health concern? I think they have mud caked on their feet. Do you mean because their legs look short? I agree with you, though, there is something about them that just doesn't look right. My pullets from this year's hatching have not started laying yet, so I still don't know how dark their eggs will be, but the parent hens' eggs were "4" at most, so I want to work to get darker eggs as well as improve the birds.

 

[desertmarcy]

These boys are suppose to be 6 months? They look old as dirt to me, I could be wrong, lol.

Look at their spurs, just barely coming in.

 

[desertmarcy]

I think I would pass on both. I see white in both's hackles and that is not a good thing. They don't have much leg feathers so that is not going to be much help. Don't settle... you need a really good roo.

Thank you, I don't think I want either of these. But, just for learning, the white in the hackles I see is at the base of the feather in the fluff, where their feathers have been messed up by the others pulling feathers out. There is no white showing on the outer lengths of the feathers, so if they hadn't had feathers pulled, you would not see that white. I guess I have never really looked down deep at the hackle feathers on mine--you are saying the feathers should have no white all the way down to the base?

 

[desertmarcy]

They do appear to be Black Coppers to me, but poor examples of them.

I think that leg issue is the same one that I have seen on some of my older cock birds. When they get it, they are typically about 18 months old. I took a bunch of pictures and sent them off to the head of the Michigan State University's Avian Genetics dept., and heard back from Dr. R. M. Fulton - I asked (and received) permission to post his reply:

I have had a chance to review the pictures - If in fact, you have no response to treatment for scaley leg mite [it is most definitely not scaley leg mite) then there are 2 diseases that can cause this. Xanthomatosis, which is an accumulation of cholesterol and/or lipids in the skin. There is no treatment nor prevention for this condition. The other would be Marek's disease....which isn't very likely. It could still be scaley leg mite if the birds are re-infected. The reason for only males is puzzling although it could be related to hormones levels. My best guess would be xanthomatosis.

Sorry I am late about getting back to you. You may post my reply on the forum if you wish. The exact cause of xanthomatosis is not known. It is caused by a problem in lipid and/or cholesterol metabolism. People have speculated that it could be an unknown hydrocarbon in the feed (possible but not likely). More work needs to be done.

Regards,

R. M. Fulton, D.V.M., Ph.D.

Wynette, would you elaborate on what you are seeing on the legs as an issue? I am still learning a lot about evaluating a bird, and I picked those cockerels up and handled them, looked them over when I was there, and I did not recognize a problem. Is it the scales that just don't look clean and bright? I just want to know what to look for. Thank you.
Do you have any photos of this?

 

[laughingclown]

Look at their spurs, just barely coming in.

Look at pic 8, where it has a close up of the legs. Right along the side of the leg where the feathers are. There is a big scrape along the leg. That or it irritation or scaly leg. Thats what I meant by health concerns.

 

[snowbird]

Thank you, I don't think I want either of these. But, just for learning, the white in the hackles I see is at the base of the feather in the fluff, where their feathers have been messed up by the others pulling feathers out. There is no white showing on the outer lengths of the feathers, so if they hadn't had feathers pulled, you would not see that white. I guess I have never really looked down deep at the hackle feathers on mine--you are saying the feathers should have no white all the way down to the base?

Marcy, the white Hackle undercolor is a major fault and is believe by some to lead to more white feathers in wing and tail. This white is undercolor so you have to open the hackle and look for it, unless the bird is wet then it will show by its self.

 

[Wynette]

Marcy, see how the base of the feathers, where they attach to the shanks, is red/inflammed? That is the issue. I started a thread on them a couple years ago. There have been several folks who have seen this in their stock, all are male. There is apparently no treatment or cure. It does not seem to bother them, and I believe this to be fairly common.

The white in the feathers will grow out - it's only seen at the base now because they are young. It will get worse, more than likely. Sorry!

ETA: Here's the thread I started several years ago, along with pics: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/244582/feather-legged-roo-with-inflamed-feather-shafts

 

[desertmarcy]

Thank you all so much for your comments and help evaluating those two cockerels. I learned quite a bit from this exercise of looking at someone else's birds! This is just another good example of why, unless you buy birds directly from a certain person, you can't expect the same quality from someone who second or third hand or even more down the line, got birds from that certain person as these birds were sold to the lady, as hatching eggs, from the line of a well known reputable breeder.

 

[snowbird]

Just a small addition to the leg problem Post. Feather leg breeds are the only fowl I have seen this problem on the shanks and toes. Also notice that there will be a ridge where the feathers come out of the shank. Sometimes this ridge will have raised scales looking like leg mites. I have seen the red infected look show up at about the time the male is mature, on the Marans and also seen it disapear over night. I have no idea of the cause only that it only shows up on the males and only feather leg.