Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[BarnGoddess01]

I seriously doubt that the blue gene is responsible for the genetic mess of Black Coppers.

I completely agree!

 

[Wynette]

I normally agree with you, but I do take a different stance on this concept. Breeding poultry is part skill and part art. There is some room for each of us to make different decisions and take different roads. The SOP is where we will be judged. I choose to take another path. We should be allowed to differ with each other without insulting or slinging mud

. ...

I 100% agree with you. There is not just one way to reach a goal in my opinion, either. It does seem that folks get rigid in their thinking...I could be wrong, but I wonder if, when you get to a poitn of having been a breeder for 20+ years, perhaps you sort of "get in a rut" and continue doing things the same way, knowing it will work. Nothing wrong with that, but - I think we all need to be open to feedback, and HELPFUL, not HURTFUL in our criticisms.

We all have opinions, and we all ought to be able to disagree. Taking your toys and marching out of the sanbox to go someplace else because you don't like what you heard helps you in absolutely no way. We all need to open our ears, be more respectful, and CHILLAX a bit, I think.

VC - the bird that owns those legs I posted was a bit overmelanized, but not way off the scale.

 

[Wynette]

HC, Does the male have Yellow legs, on my screen they sure do , so thought I would ask.

I'm not seeing the yellow - WHERE?

 

[Wynette]

Well, I moved some birds around today. Very noise in the coop this evening. They were not happy lol. Checked my young little roo again today and so far no white yet. I hope it stays that way!

This is a good way to kill off a broody - wait, I'm sorry, not LITERALLY "kill off" I meant to get her to stop being broody. Shake things up in their pens a bit by swapping one or two out for a day.

 

[math ace]

It is the quality of the black. That was what I was told by established breeders and genetics experts when I inquired and it what I have seen with my own eyes in my own backyard. The black out of the blues isn't as black as black out of pure black lines - especially their bum fluff. It tends to be very "faded". I have seen this to be the case with Marans, Ameraucanas, and Silkies. Silkie breeders don't combine b/b/s. I guess because they've been around for so much longer, they keep black completely separate - unless their blue becomes too light in which case they will inject more black. But the main point is, blue breeders will often use black. It is the breeders that are serious about true black that avoid blue - and something "black" out of blue - like the plague.

I understand this, BUT what I wonder is if we produced a few really good black coppers in respect to type and size out of a black x blue crossing and then used those offspring with line breeding for a few generations of black x black if the weaker black coloring would be eliminated. This is my thinking... This is what I am testing. I am concentrating on TYPE and size right now. Of course I could be wrong and not get the quality in black that I am expecting to see in a few years.

If that is NOT the case and I end up with a bunch of really good sized and type marans with weak black color, then they can always be used to make the blues. All the breeders seem to be in agreement that blacks used to create blues is acceptable. So far, I am happy with the results I have been seeing.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
That my very well come to pass. But I also know folks in the US working with Black Coppers can see what is in all other respects a VERY nice male but reject it when they find out there is blue in the background. Many of them wouldn't even look at the bird once they heard there was blue in the background. I guess, at the end of the day, we all make our own decisions about priorities and it behooves us to keep LOTS of very good records. Also, get out to the shows and see the birds with your own eyes. I can't emphasize enough how much I have learned - good and bad - from seeing birds at the shows, and when I'm lucky enough, talking to the folks producing those birds.

Thus, I content myself with my blues and no longer even consider the blacks out of my blues truly black.

 

[Wynette]

you know, it's the same with Jersey Giants. Folks breeding the blacks who are "pure black" from black stock, not out of blues, won't look twice at a black bird, even if it's perfect in type, if it's out of a blue cross. I've hatched from several Giant breeders, and I have to say that the black out pure black lines is a deeper, shinier black that those out of blue/black lines. I don't know how else to describe it.

 

[hobbychicken]

Here are the better pics. What do you think. Please be honest I can handle it

[COLOR=800080]Don has already mentioned that the leg color seems to be off.  If there is a yellow leg issue,  it can hide in the chicks.  Then when a pullet hiding a yellow leg gene is mated back to this male,  it will come out in spades.   There is a way to test mate this male to either confirm or deny the existence of a recessive yellow leg gene.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]What really strikes me about this male is his head.  I know the wattles are way to big,  but there could be more going on than that. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]Do you have a picture of this boy head on  from the front or the top?  The tail angle is higher than it should be,  but I am wondering how full his chest and back are.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]He seems to have more coppering on one side of the should than the other.  Is that just the lighting playing tricks with the picture?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]Remind me again - How old is this male?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]Hobbychicken,  I am not picking on your bird.  It is hard to evaluate a bird with just a couple of photos.   He is a 3 dimensional object being presented in a 2 dimensional format.  That means I either have to ASSUME a lot or ask for more information so that I give a fair and valid opinion.   OBTW,  it is just my OPINION.  Others will have their opinion.  It is your job to take all our opinions and make your own ...       Welcome to the MARANS thread.  Good job re-posting your pics. . . Sometimes the conversations,  discussions, etc.  come quickly on this thread.  We don't mean to be rude,  but sometimes we will miss a request for a critique. [/COLOR]

thanks, how can you test mate? I hatched a couple out a few months ago and they all have dark legs. Even the ones a production red stashed out and hatched. I will try and get a few more pics of him. So should I look for a new male? Oh also he is 8 months old

 

[DMRippy]

Have you looked at the soles of his feet? What color are the soles of his feet? That is the question really what color is his skin not if his legs are dark.

 

[snowbird]

Mathace "Lisa", What irritates me about this mess, I can not remember at anytime when we were critiqueing all the BC males you posted is you saying they were BC and Blue copper crosses. All of this should be up front as it does have an affect on the offspring. Plus also there is a right way to make the cross and a wrong way to make it.

If anyone wants we can go over how to make the cross and what some of the drawbacks in the BC offspring.

Lisa, my friend you know from all the emails back and forth that I just say what I believe and what experience has taught me.