Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

Will just add that you will want the white around the head and chest and belly on the BC checks. This is a must.

Will start posting how I bred BC without the unwanted white in a little while. If you are not able to cull or will not cull just pass the post on bye. Later

 

[gilavina]

Vicki, can tell you that after breeding your line for a while you will be able to decide what to test mate. I cull all after the juve molt that have white in wing and tail or brown body color. My females usually start featherin at 3-4 weeks.

Wynette if you remember the four pullets that were sent to indiana last spring the had really nice Copper hackle at 4 weeks old. Did you ever ask the lady how they turned out at adult hood.

Agreed. I cull about 90% of the stock I'm going to by about the same time frame. I do hold onto a few that might have something I'm curious about, whether it is to see if they will turn out nicely or if they have something I don't like, but have a morbid curiosity about it haha

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
rotflmao!

(Sadly, that IS good advice.

)

 

[flgardengirl]

Just a thought/tentative hypothesis (LOL): Perhaps the white feathering that comes after the molt could actually be a result the loss of pigmentation so not actually white but loss of pigment that results in white appearance. I think some of the mottled breeds of other chickens naturally lack pigmentation and it results in the white appearance in a part of the feather. I believe this mottling gene is recessive. I don't think this is the mottling gene come into play with the Marans, just saying loss of pigmentation results in white looking feathers.

So.. I know in people (due to taking human genetics courses- not saying I am well versed in chicken genetics lol) that loss of pigmentation in hair follicles i.e. greying/whitening of the hair can be genetic (intrinsic cause). The loss of pigmentation presents visually in the root/base of the hair first. Some other intrinsic theories for loss of hair pigmentation are age, hormones, thinning of the hair shaft due to the forementioned or could also be due to extrinsic factors. There are theories that it can also be environmental or caused by extrinsic factors such as climate, pollutants,toxins, chemical exposure, trauma to the hair follicle.
. I think someone would have to do a study using the correct scientific method and of course having a control group that does not have this white feathering/loss of pigment (whatever it may be) phenomenon to really find out and do a variety of testing to determine the actual cause. I guess they also could do some testing of genes that are present/not present in the control group vs. the experimental group.
So back to chickens and pigmentation loss, based on how pigmentation is lost/ and not completely proven in human follicles, I don't really know if people will find out what is really causing this unless someone wants to spend a lot of time and $$ doing research. So whether or not the standard should completely eliminate adult male birds with a white feather or two, I don't know. I'm thinking perhaps a survey should be done to see how widespread the problem really is. Also some other considerations to start with would be: Is it only the BCMs or is it other varieties and perhaps other breeds as well? Is it occuring more presently than it has in the past? etc. etc....

 

[snowbird]

Just thought I'd post a couple of photos of a couple of the young blue coppers (forgive the photos, the birds are wild as March hares since I haven't gotten to spend more time with them). Still shows their color decently enough tho I believe
The nice thing about them is that all of the birds I'm holding back have nice beefy type.



His tail is up a bit high from running from me and being on alert. His eyes are also finally starting to change color as well.




Just for fun, one of my Silver Marans pullets. The one that gave me that nice egg from the other day

Vicki, What really helps you in the poultry breeding is that you grew up with them just like I did. When folks say start with something that has good type and Marans shape this is what is being talked about. If you tried to breed one of the poor type and breed shape up to something like this it would be virtually impossible, anyone trying to upgrade your flock demand that you are getting some fowl that will look like this pullet. If you try and make these from scrath most will quit after a few year and give up. please do not worry if you have to buy the Barn already built as sometime this is the only way you will have a nice Barn to work with.

 

[gilavina]

Vicki, What really helps you in the poultry breeding is that you grew up with them just like I did. When folks say start with something that has good type and Marans shape this is what is being talked about. If you tried to breed one of the poor type and breed shape up to something like this it would be virtually impossible, anyone trying to upgrade your flock demand that you are getting some fowl that will look like this pullet. If you try and make these from scrath most will quit after a few year and give up. please do not worry if you have to buy the Barn already built as sometime this is the only way you will have a nice Barn to work with.

very true, it is very much second nature breeding poultry as its been a huge part of growing up. This pullet has the same beefy type and shape of Luella. I believe she is the direct sister to Luella. I don't have a way of judging 100% as she was a surprise chick from a broody that hid away in the haymount.
I just realized that the blue copper pullet is one of those young chicks I posted a pic of a while back that you really liked the type on Don.

 

[snowbird]

I think we all accept the fact that we keep fowl around that we will never breed just because we can.

The reason it is hard to buy good Marans is if you do sell someone a start or even give them a start within a month you will see an ad for eggs for sale from those same fowl. Anyone that knows me will tell you that I myself never sold anything until I decided due to old age it was time to cut down. Rest assured I am not apposed to using the axe and we have Sandy ground here where I live.

 

[Wynette]

please do not worry if you have to buy the Barn already built as sometime this is the only way you will have a nice Barn to work with.

AMEN!

 

[Wynette]

Just a thought/tentative hypothesis (LOL): Perhaps the white feathering that comes after the molt could actually be a result the loss of pigmentation so not actually white but loss of pigment that results in white appearance. I think some of the mottled breeds of other chickens naturally lack pigmentation and it results in the white appearance in a part of the feather. I believe this mottling gene is recessive. I don't think this is the mottling gene come into play with the Marans, just saying loss of pigmentation results in white looking feathers.

So.. I know in people (due to taking human genetics courses- not saying I am well versed in chicken genetics lol) that loss of pigmentation in hair follicles i.e. greying/whitening of the hair can be genetic (intrinsic cause). The loss of pigmentation presents visually in the root/base of the hair first. Some other intrinsic theories for loss of hair pigmentation are age, hormones, thinning of the hair shaft due to the forementioned or could also be due to extrinsic factors. There are theories that it can also be environmental or caused by extrinsic factors such as climate, pollutants,toxins, chemical exposure, trauma to the hair follicle.
. I think someone would have to do a study using the correct scientific method and of course having a control group that does not have this white feathering/loss of pigment (whatever it may be) phenomenon to really find out and do a variety of testing to determine the actual cause. I guess they also could do some testing of genes that are present/not present in the control group vs. the experimental group.
So back to chickens and pigmentation loss, based on how pigmentation is lost/ and not completely proven in human follicles, I don't really know if people will find out what is really causing this unless someone wants to spend a lot of time and $$ doing research. So whether or not the standard should completely eliminate adult male birds with a white feather or two, I don't know. I'm thinking perhaps a survey should be done to see how widespread the problem really is. Also some other considerations to start with would be: Is it only the BCMs or is it other varieties and perhaps other breeds as well? Is it occuring more presently than it has in the past? etc. etc....

Interesting - thanks for posting.

I have seen the white feather issue in blues, blue coppers, and black coppers. Not in blacks yet, but I haven't seen many blacks, either. I mostly am going from what I see at shows. I would think it stands to reason that what one would see at a show would be a breeder's very best to offer. Are their best the birds with white feathers? Yes, I for one am seeing more and more of it. However, that could be that now the folks who have only been breeding a few years are seeing their oldest males growing older and the white showing. I am unsure about why more are around, and that's only my experience.

 

[fowlman01]

Interesting - thanks for posting.

I have seen the white feather issue in blues, blue coppers, and black coppers. Not in blacks yet, but I haven't seen many blacks, either. I mostly am going from what I see at shows. I would think it stands to reason that what one would see at a show would be a breeder's very best to offer. Are their best the birds with white feathers? Yes, I for one am seeing more and more of it. However, that could be that now the folks who have only been breeding a few years are seeing their oldest males growing older and the white showing. I am unsure about why more are around, and that's only my experience.

When judging I see white where it should not be all the time.....usually the base of the tail in males and wingtips or completely white wing feathers in males and females. Marans is not the only breed with this problem. You don't see it in black birds cuz it is usually a DQ in black birds...this is the lesson. Breeders of black birds got rid of it because it was a DQ.

Walt