Marans' vigor

[wood&feathers]

Yup Sparklee, you pegged Digger! When confronted with something new, she gets out of the way and observes. Sometimes to comic effect, like when I replaced the tarp with metal. I put that bubble type silver sheeting underneath to keep things cooler in summer. She was stalking around the coop with her head cocked like the sky was full of hawks.

I took Flaps for testing, so I guess I should hear back someday what I am facing. Even if we lose Stubs, I expect the others are carriers even though they seem resistant. MG can be passed through the egg??

 

[OHmamma]

Love the foxhole image. I have a white Marans hen that is insisting on laying her egg in my trash can today. I have shooed her out all morning but she is determined......She also likes to hide in any small place she can fit in.

Oh sick chickens and the people that sell you them without warning you....At first my response to a sickly chicken was to cull it and treat the rest with medicine. Then I realized you never get rid of some of these diseases. Wild birds carry them, people,feedbags etc. you have to learn to prevent them otherwise you would eventualy just kill every one....

"Let Food be your medicine and your medicine be food"-Hippocrates

Rule #1 of chicken farming...KEEP THEIR FEET DRY

There are several things that can help boost the immune system in people and animals. I have been studying chickens and their immune systems more this past spring and I have found a few things that seem to work. Most of this comes from what I know about hoslistic medicine for humans but I took into consideration that chickens are not mammals and heve a somewhat different immune system. For instance humans have 6 different leukocytes while poultry only carry five. All of the factors that determine the quality and quantity of these disease fighting factors are found along the chromosonal chains which means that yes, succeptibility to illness can be a hereditary flaw. Some people may choose to cull these birds immediately others may want to save them.

SO if you a person that hates to kill something without giving it a chance then you can naturally boost their weak immune system simply by changing their diet. That has been my project this spring. Yes, I do get obsessive perhaps I should have stayed in school......

First and most important OBSERVE your chicks as many times as possible every day. I call it "Chicken TV" I can spend hours watching them. You will notice signs of illness sooner if you become aware of their normal behaviors and sounds. DO NOT dismiss a sneeze or odd squishy squeak. Also shaking of the head is a sign that they are tying to dislodge mucus and so is scratching thier face/beak. If you wait for the poo it can be too late. The intestines are wonderful self clensing things, they expell most micro organisims and bacteria before it can pass through the blood stream. By the time the lining has been stripped enough to cause poo that looks bad the disease will have already filled the chicks little body. A few other secondary signs are also ruffled feathers, holding the head back into the shoulders or tucking it under the wing and unthriftiness.

If you have a sick bird or a couple/few sick birds try to isolate them. More so that you can monitor their food/water intake. Resist the temptaion of putting a regular brooder lamp over them this can amplify the fungal or bacterial growth that has already found its way in. Intead use a white light 100 or 75 watts. Unless they have never been off the brooder then use the same wattage but use white light. Meaning if they are using a light that is fine just don't re-introduce one.

For day 1 dissolve one 325mg asprin in their water to help relieve their stress. Days 2&3 mix 4tsp RAW apple cider vinegar into their water, add some sweetener (1tbsp) I use agave necter but you could use sugar or honey. The tannin in the vinegar helps expell the mucus in the sinus and intestines and helps them absorb their nutrients more readily. The sugar just makes the water taste better thus helping them drink more. It also gives them a little energy. This mix makes one gallon you can save it for 2-3 days if you need to. Clensing the intestines with the vinegar also helps any medications you may use be absorbed by the intestines.

Use their regular feed ( I use 20% chick starter fo sick birds) but add shredded carrots, and chopped apples,chopped spinach,ground garlic. Of course this would be harder for younger chicks or banty to eat so if they are real small you need to grind or chop it smaller. Chickens utilize vitimin A more for their immune system. They process it differently than humans and it is comparable to us using vitimin C and zinc to help cure a cold.

Give them about a week on this and monitor them closely for improvement or decline. If they do not get worse keep them on this until you feel comfortable letting them with the others.

If you notice decline you may want to resort to antimicrobial solutions. Depending on the sickness there are a few to choose from. For respiratoy illness (CRD,MG,MS) there are several choices. Erythromycin,Tylosin,Tetramycin,Duramycin,Sulfanimides and Sulmet are cheaper often work well and all are added to the water. (fresh water not the mix from earlier) One tablespoon to one gallon for most but read the packet. You must change it daily so only make what you are going to use in 24 hours. A few of them can be given by injection directly to the sick bird.
There are also stronger ones, spinctomycin lincomycin that you can get but they are more costly.

Of all the mentioned antibiotics above I have used duramycin,sulmet, and tetramycin. I believe the sulmet works faster but is even more effective after using the clensing mix made with the vinegar. This year I have only seen illness in a big batch of silkie chicks my uncle has. I used the clensing mix along with the above diet and they recoverd nicely. Out of the 32 chicks we did lose 4 but the rest are all fine and growing fast now.

Also, after a round of antibiotics I give my birds kefir to help replace thier healthy intestinal bacteria.


Ahhh sorry if this seems like obsessive rambling...I am off to build another coop

 

[BarnGoddess01]

You guys all seem to have a TON of experience with Marans so I'll try asking my question here as well because I'm getting desperate.

I have a 2 week old BCM chick that is staggering. Has been staggering for at least a week, I would say slowly getting worse. As of today, the chick really prefers to stay lying down although if there's a fuss in the brooder it will move. I have 6 other BCMs in the same brooder that appear to be just fine. I also hatched 10 EEs and 7 Ameraucanas and they are all fine. Staggering seems to be the only symptom. Growth and feathering are keeping up with the others. Head carriage is normal. It appears alert and bright. It is eating and pooping. No discharge from nostrils or eyes. It objects profusely if I pick it up - wings flapping like mad until I steady it. They are all on a medicated chick starter made by Purina (in Canada).

Is there something genetic that Black/Blue Copper Marans are prone to that could be causing this? Could this be inbreeding? This particular chick does not have feathered legs. One of the others does.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Ok ... so apparently I'm a thread killer!!

 

[wood&feathers]

Not a thread killer, but I haven't had those symptoms turn up in our little flock. Have you posted on the disease and emergency forum? Your question would get more prompt attention there.

I nursed mine with this respiratory illness for 4 months. At this point, the three clean legged birds are recovered and appear healthy. Two of the feather legged ones are dead, and the third is getting Tylan injections. Stubs, the remaining sick bird, has always been the smallest, and does not seem to be growing like the rest. The other birds are as big as my adult production reds, and one cockerel is bigger! Stubs still fits in my hand.

I would say that all these birds were exposed to this disease, and am just amazed at the variation in individual disease response.

OHbigmomma, I too like supportive nutrition. I tried Duramycin and Tylosin in their water earlier (March) and that is when most of them recovered. But after 3 weeks of Duramycin and 2 of Tylosin I was getting the feeling it wasn't doing any additional good, and it seemed like a longer course than I had ever heard of - I know better than to just stop at the moment you see improvement! I actually add cider vinegar to their water daily anyway since they seem to like it. Yogurt, bruised apples, BOSS and now flax seed are all common treats. The flax seed was $1.15/# at the feed store, in small ziploc bags.

In my area it is a long way to a health food store. Is raw cider vinegar available at feed stores in your area?

 

[BarnGoddess01]

wood&feathers :

Not a thread killer, but I haven't had those symptoms turn up in our little flock. Have you posted on the disease and emergency forum? Your question would get more prompt attention there.

I nursed mine with this respiratory illness for 4 months. At this point, the three clean legged birds are recovered and appear healthy. Two of the feather legged ones are dead, and the third is getting Tylan injections. Stubs, the remaining sick bird, has always been the smallest, and does not seem to be growing like the rest. The other birds are as big as my adult production reds, and one cockerel is bigger! Stubs still fits in my hand.

I would say that all these birds were exposed to this disease, and am just amazed at the variation in individual disease response.

OHbigmomma, I too like supportive nutrition. I tried Duramycin and Tylosin in their water earlier (March) and that is when most of them recovered. But after 3 weeks of Duramycin and 2 of Tylosin I was getting the feeling it wasn't doing any additional good, and it seemed like a longer course than I had ever heard of - I know better than to just stop at the moment you see improvement! I actually add cider vinegar to their water daily anyway since they seem to like it. Yogurt, bruised apples, BOSS and now flax seed are all common treats. The flax seed was $1.15/# at the feed store, in small ziploc bags.

In my area it is a long way to a health food store. Is raw cider vinegar available at feed stores in your area?

Thanks for responding!! I did post in the disease and emergency forum and got nothing there either. I also wrote to the lady that sold me the eggs and another breeder I know. Nothing there.

It's very hard to determine what is actually going on with this chick. I'm not convinced its condition is changing. It's just better or worse at certain times of the day. I watched the brooder for over an hour yesterday. The chick appears completely normal except for the stagger. It eats, it drinks, I don't even think it's low amongst the chicks in the brooder. It holds its own in there. The issue seems to be with the right leg/side in particular. I'm wondering now if perhaps the chick was injured. The leg looks completely normal without any obvious sign of trauma of any sort. Both legs appear to be developing equally and have strength. The legs are the same temperature. And I would have thought that with an injury, things would improve. The chick can walk absolutely normally but if knocked or startled, it wobbles and/or falls. It certainly doesn't look like it has any plans to die any time soon so I guess I will just watch as it grows and continue to wonder!!​

 

[wood&feathers]

On second thought I might have an experience that relates to yours. Our very first pullets(Production red) I purchased at 8 weeks from a local chicken propagator (small cages, but very clean). I picked out 3 based on who jumped up to meet us, not any physical traits. "Boldy" was first to the door. When I got home I noticed one hock was swollen, but seemed OK since she was walking on it with only a slight limp. At that time I did not notice any difference in foot size. As she grew, the injured foot grew slower. In her second year now, she still lays all right, but hangs around the coop instead of foraging. She is a total sweetheart and the kids love her.

Or there could be an underlying illness. I would certainly keep an eye on it to see if anything changes.

 

[wood&feathers]

...oh, and I would keep it with other layers and avoid breeding, just in case it is genetic.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

An update on my Tipsy BCM chick: She is now 3 and a half weeks old and they've all been moved to a BIG open outside brooder where they have space to run and fly and do crazy chick things. I was worried about how Tipsy would fare but she continues to amaze me. I am reaching the conclusion that there is something physically wrong with Tipsy's legs. She isn't improving or getting worse. She still walks very slowly and cautiously, and falls over frequently. However, her growth and feathering continue on par with the others. There still isn't any outward sign of a problem or deformity but her legs just don't work like the others. She actually shocked me by aggressively grabbing one of the worms I took in for them yesterday and charging off with it. It wasn't pretty - she was falling and wings were used a lot but she managed to hold on to that worm! I don't know how long she'll be able to keep this up, however. When I took the tray of hard boiled egg in for the brood today, she got knocked flat a couple of times. It's hard to watch but she seems determined.

 

[Zgoatlady]

wood&feathers :

They were born in January, so they aren't little anymore. This is the 2nd spring I've raised chicks. The illness may have begun with the breeder...puts me in a tough spot, because you know how the kids (and me...) fall for the fuzzies.

I've been feeding gamebird starter, 24% protein. They get daily treats - mostly the feed mixed with yogurt or egg. I doubt their problem is dietary. I have Drench for mixing electrolytes and Kaytee Exact for hand feeding chicks in distress, but they seem to all be past that now.

When I moved them outside I did it gradually like last year's bunch. A Kentucky cold snap in April is mid 20's F. They still have the heat lamp available in 2 different sheltered places in the coop and run. But Boots, the hen that died, was also quite adventurous and I suspect she sat in a more exposed spot than the others.

Our weather has been WET, wet like Seattle. We just got another couple inches today.

This respiratory bug is the obvious problem, and short of finding a vet to nail it down in a lab I don't know what to do - half the stuff on the chart has runny nose etc as symptoms. All the birds have had the illness, it is just that the clean legged ones seem to have recovered, while the 2 surviving feather legs are still showing symptoms. Thus I posted this question...is some of this response genetic?

It does sound like some (maybe not yours!) Marans have issues with vigor. Is it the overbreeding? People getting eggs from infected flocks? That is why I posted here on the Breeding forum, not under illnesses etc. I know 6 isn't a huge sample size, but the disease response has been cleanly divided over the leg feathering. I didn't know if maybe someone had noticed a genetic link.

So I dont have clean legs but Ive never had a problem with our girls and boys for that matter. I do live near Seattle and have rain all the time. I live close to Mt Rainier like a hour away so we get the cold too. I think you could have some bug in the coop or maybe a week line. They are really great birds good luck with them.​