Mareks experience needed. prelim results pg 9

[klf73]

so, after digging around trying to gather my info I realized the first chick started with the leg problem at 4 weeks old, then another a week later, and another a week to week and a half after that. although rare, it is possible. The 3rd bird affected, which was kept alive for a few weeks by my son and his babying, had tumors.
leukosis virus, I read, has a MINIMUM of 14 weeks to develop tumors. Since these birds were ALL under this age, significantly, I am not worried about leukosis.
It is time to contact the source, let's hope they recitify this situation. I hope they acknowledge their mistake and do their best to make this right for us

 

[chickenlee]

First, my thoughts are with those who are dealing with these issues. You were wondering in earlier posts about "what next" and "what did you do after culling"....I had the unfortunate experience of contracting ILT in my flock last year. Through various testing at our provincial vet/agricultural testing facility it was determined that the ILT virus strain was from the SHEDDING virus vaccination, and made it's way into my flock when I unknowingly added one of these vaccinated birds to my coop. Since the rest of my surviving flock would be carriers of the shedding virus for life, the only logical and ethical choice was to cull the entire flock if I had any desire to interact with other poultry keepers (ie friends with farms), sell or show birds. So, we culled every bird. Pets, favorites, rarities, all of them. It was emotionally very difficult, but in the end, the only choice we had if we wanted to continue on with the fancy. We cleaned, scrubbed, pressure washed with an antivirucidal cleaner (we used Virkon, I'm not sure if you can get that in the States...we are in Canada), burned all bedding/shavings, burned then buried the culled birds, shoveled out 4 inches of topsoil from the outdoor run and buried it, discarded anything possible including leftover feed. Discarded brooms and disinfected all tools/gear/feeders/waterers...anything that could have been exposed to the virus. Repeated cleaning the coop and gear again in a month. Left the coop clean and unpopulated until the following season. Repeated the antivirucidal cleaning. These steps were what the provincial and federal avian vets suggested to minimize the risk of infecting any new birds with the virus. It was a lot of work, heartache, not to mention the monetary loss. Now that we are through it, I am glad that we took the time to do things properly and we are in a position to start all over again.

In order to minimize risk in the future, we are now only obtaining new stock through hatching eggs. We are keeping a somewhat closed system, where no chicks/adult birds enter the property. We are vaccinating for mareks and ILT. It was also suggested that we consider vaccinating for Newcastles and Infectious Bronchitis.

Unfortunately, another friend and poultry keeper was going through a similar situation and we came up with this strategy....she would cull most of her birds, keeping the best breeders and favorites to obtain eggs from. Once my facility was clean, she shipped eggs to me. I immediately discarded all packaging off site and disinfected the eggs using a special egg dip treatment (link to Tylan dip treatment http://www.poultryswapontario.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=468 . Eggs were set and incubated in a brand new hovabator incubator as normal. Chicks hatched and immediately put into vaccination program, and raised in a brooder in our garage for many weeks until the chicks could have time to build immunity. After the recommended period, chicks were reintroduced to our coop. My friend who donated the eggs is actually in the process of moving to a new farm. Next year when she is established at her new site and the birds are laying I will send her eggs to restock. In this way, all of the genetic lines were saved and we can both move ahead with a clean flock. We are also doing a regular blood testing program with the local agricultural vet college in order to monitor flock health more closely.

I share this just so that you guys can know there are others out there who have gone through similar situations. It is so hard. But it will get better. There are ways that you can save your genetic lines - you won't be able to save your favorites/pets, but will have their offspring. Try to look for the positives (through testing you will know what you are dealing with; you will become more informed about these diseases) and move forward with whatever strategy is best FOR YOU, and YOUR goals as a poultry keeper. There aren't really any right or wrong answers as everybody has their own personal husbandry and management ideas/goals.

I thank you and commend you for being open and honest about your situations so that others can learn along with you. I'm sure that if you choose to cull and start again there will be many generous people here on the forum that will even be willing to donate hatching eggs if and when you are ready to move forward.

 

[klf73]

sorry for your losses.
the difference between the vaccines is that the Mareks vaccine is not the same, as I think they use cow pox to vaccinate for small pox? It provides the antibodies to fight the virus without infecting you with it. Mareks vaccinated chicks DO NOT SHED THE VIRUS unless they contracted the virus and are carrying it. The vaccine alone does not make them infectious.

I don't know what I would ever do if I got an infectious bronchial infection(and others similar)...I think I would just quit

I applaud those that find the strength to cull, clean and start over.....I don't think I would have it in me

 

[happycountryhens]

Quote:
Walt, how did you run your program to end up with resistant birds? Did you let nature take it's course and just cull birds that showed signs and keep and breed the others? Do you bring in new birds thru hatching eggs or buying birds from another breeder and how do you handle that.

From what I have read, I agree that you can't protect yourself from this disease becuase it is so easily transmitted from place to place via songbirds, air, moterized equipment, even having your flock tested can put you at risk....you obviously are not the only place they have put their foot on and who knows what is on the other farms?

I am interested in your technique.

Happy Country Hens

 

[1000islandspoultry]

sorry for your losses.
the difference between the vaccines is that the Mareks vaccine is not the same, as I think they use cow pox to vaccinate for small pox? It provides the antibodies to fight the virus without infecting you with it. Mareks vaccinated chicks DO NOT SHED THE VIRUS unless they contracted the virus and are carrying it. The vaccine alone does not make them infectious.

I don't know what I would ever do if I got an infectious bronchial infection(and others similar)...I think I would just quit I applaud those that find the strength to cull, clean and start over.....I don't think I would have it in me
Last edited by klf73 (Today 1:46 pm)

I agree you are completely correct in saying that mareks vaccinated chicks do not shed the virus unless they contracted the true virus and are carrying it. The chicken mareks vaccine is actually derived from a herpes virus that only affects turkeys, but is so similar in structure to chicken mareks that it gives the chickens some immunity and reduces the severity of symptoms. However, there is a chance that mareks vaccinated chickens who share living quarters with turkeys could pass the herpes virus on to the turkeys (although the symptoms of this herpes virus in turkeys are not really too bad).​

 

[keesmom]

Quote:
Walt, how did you run your program to end up with resistant birds? Did you let nature take it's course and just cull birds that showed signs and keep and breed the others? Do you bring in new birds thru hatching eggs or buying birds from another breeder and how do you handle that.

From what I have read, I agree that you can't protect yourself from this disease becuase it is so easily transmitted from place to place via songbirds, air, moterized equipment, even having your flock tested can put you at risk....you obviously are not the only place they have put their foot on and who knows what is on the other farms?

I am interested in your technique.

Happy Country Hens

There was a long thread on breeding for disease resistance here

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=399094

Sorry for all your losses!

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Walt, how did you run your program to end up with resistant birds? Did you let nature take it's course and just cull birds that showed signs and keep and breed the others? Do you bring in new birds thru hatching eggs or buying birds from another breeder and how do you handle that.

From what I have read, I agree that you can't protect yourself from this disease becuase it is so easily transmitted from place to place via songbirds, air, moterized equipment, even having your flock tested can put you at risk....you obviously are not the only place they have put their foot on and who knows what is on the other farms?

I am interested in your technique.

Happy Country Hens

Fred Jeffry the noted poultry geneticist once told me "Walt, the only thing you need in your medicine cabinet is an ax". I would say that is a bit severe, but it works for me here.
Folks have to do what they think will be best for their birds in their location. I did it by the seat of my pants.....culled any that even acted like it might get Mareks. First symptom....you are gone. Don't breed from young birds as it usually takes a while to manifest itself. In my case that was always around 6 months old depending on the breed. Keep in mind that my Merecks problem was only in three of my 15 breeds. The rest were immune for whatever reason....never had a problem that I know of..I don't do autopsies.

Given what I have seen...IMO.....Marecks is strain specific. I have never seen it take over a farm where there were several strains/breeds. In my culling I was also losing type in some cases, but I bit the bullet and hung in there until I had eliminated the problem. Not only Marecks, but any other major problem since. Any bird that shows a problem now...even a stellar show bird, goes to the medicine cabinet. Two of the three breeds I was able to breed for resistance, the Silkies ...for whatever reason..continued to be affected by Marecks although I would never lose all the birds. 50% probably. I bought some white Silkies on a street corner in San Francisco's China town (they were really better type than I had before).
I did not lose any of those birds to Marecks....that I know of.

In the beginning it was rough going, but now I don't have any kind of problem. That can change in a day. I once saw 15,000 fryers dies between 7pm and 7am the the next day. Went from looking fine, to stone dead in 12 hours. It was Exotic Newcastle disease. No one is safe from that kind of thing.

I show my birds, so they are exposed whatever may be in a show room. I have never brought back a sick bird. I do keep them separate though. I don't let most people on my property. Not because I am worried, although I take into consideration who the person is, but because I am a California Poultry Health Inspector and it would do to set a bad example.
I have a bleach shoe rinse station, gloves etc etc......but there is no way to keep stuff off your property. I sometimes trade birds and in those cases they stay closer to the house in runs made for this purpose. They stay there for at least three months.

It's good to sit back now and enjoy a couple years of hard work.

Walt

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Yea, I don't know why they keep saying that the symptoms are alike-leukosis doesn't have the paralysis.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Walt, how did you run your program to end up with resistant birds? Did you let nature take it's course and just cull birds that showed signs and keep and breed the others? Do you bring in new birds thru hatching eggs or buying birds from another breeder and how do you handle that.

From what I have read, I agree that you can't protect yourself from this disease becuase it is so easily transmitted from place to place via songbirds, air, moterized equipment, even having your flock tested can put you at risk....you obviously are not the only place they have put their foot on and who knows what is on the other farms?

I am interested in your technique.

Happy Country Hens

Fred Jeffry the noted poultry geneticist once told me "Walt, the only thing you need in your medicine cabinet is an ax". I would say that is a bit severe, but it works for me here.
Folks have to do what they think will be best for their birds in their location. I did it by the seat of my pants.....culled any that even acted like it might get Mareks. First symptom....you are gone. Don't breed from young birds as it usually takes a while to manifest itself. In my case that was always around 6 months old depending on the breed. Keep in mind that my Merecks problem was only in three of my 15 breeds. The rest were immune for whatever reason....never had a problem that I know of..I don't do autopsies.

Given what I have seen...IMO.....Marecks is strain specific. I have never seen it take over a farm where there were several strains/breeds. In my culling I was also losing type in some cases, but I bit the bullet and hung in there until I had eliminated the problem. Not only Marecks, but any other major problem since. Any bird that shows a problem now...even a stellar show bird, goes to the medicine cabinet. Two of the three breeds I was able to breed for resistance, the Silkies ...for whatever reason..continued to be affected by Marecks although I would never lose all the birds. 50% probably. I bought some white Silkies on a street corner in San Francisco's China town (they were really better type than I had before).
I did not lose any of those birds to Marecks....that I know of.

In the beginning it was rough going, but now I don't have any kind of problem. That can change in a day. I once saw 15,000 fryers dies between 7pm and 7am the the next day. Went from looking fine, to stone dead in 12 hours. It was Exotic Newcastle disease. No one is safe from that kind of thing.

I show my birds, so they are exposed whatever may be in a show room. I have never brought back a sick bird. I do keep them separate though. I don't let most people on my property. Not because I am worried, although I take into consideration who the person is, but because I am a California Poultry Health Inspector and it would not do to set a bad example.
I have a bleach shoe rinse station, gloves etc etc......but there is no way to keep stuff off your property. I sometimes trade birds and in those cases they stay closer to the house in runs made for this purpose. They stay there for at least three months.

It's good to sit back now and enjoy a couple years of hard work.

Walt

Sorry don't know how to delete a double post.

 

[seminolewind]

As for resistance: Any eggs I hatched from outside sources, I lost a chicken under 6-8 months, but I had given so many away that I really don't know what happened to the ones that aren't here.

The recent Polish were from outside source eggs and 7/10 died so far, one a week or so.

Resistance:
The eggs that were hatched from my own flock are all okay. It has to be that those chicks were born with resistance, because I know that my flock carries it, now that those outside chicks died from it.

In two years, I've lost a roo, the hen that carried it in, and possibly another hen but still unsure.
So I have to say that my older chickens have resistance, are okay hatching their own chicks, but not eggs from outside. The outside source eggs will be hatched and vaccinated and kept away for a month or two.