Marek's - I'm so confused

[msyfoopoo]

Has your 4 year old hen been laying eggs recently? Sometimes if they are internal layers or have egg yolk peritonitis, they may have pain walking and prefersitting or lying down. But leg injuries can be very common in chickens. Hopefully, it is just a sprain, although fractures can sometimes be the case. I would keep her crated for a few days with food and water to force rest, continue the vitamins, and evaluate how she is doing. You might want to Google Mareks disease and read "The Great Big Mareks Faq" written by another BYCer who did a lot of research. It contains a great deal of info. Mareks has to be diagnosed by examining the feather shafts or tumors found on a necropsy. That would be what I would consider doing if she should die.

She is laying. She is older, so her production is slow but normal for her age. Have had hens with peritonitis and they are lethargic. She is not. Posting video soon.

 

[Kiki]

 

[msyfoopoo]

OK, FINALLY I have a video on youtube. It is still loading, but should be available in the next hour or so. Her left wing has dropped LOTS today.

 

[rebrascora]

Unfortunately that does look like Marek's.
The fact that she looks healthy and her comb is bright and her tail is up and she is eating enthusiastically suggests that it's not something like heat exhaustion/dehydration or coccidiosis or worms or botulism, which are the other usual suspects for paralysis. It's just that she cannot coordinate her limbs and that is pretty much exactly what I see in my birds with Marek's in the beginning. Keeping fingers crossed it is one of the milder strains like I have in my flock.

 

[msyfoopoo]

Unfortunately that does look like Marek's.
The fact that she looks healthy and her comb is bright and her tail is up and she is eating enthusiastically suggests that it's not something like heat exhaustion/dehydration or coccidiosis or worms or botulism, which are the other usual suspects for paralysis. It's just that she cannot coordinate her limbs and that is pretty much exactly what I see in my birds with Marek's in the beginning. Keeping fingers crossed it is one of the milder strains like I have in my flock.

So, what now? I will cull her, but what about the rest of my flock? How do you handle the whole Marek's thing once you have it in your birds and on your property? Do I vaccinate all birds that are over 1 day old since the virus is "everywhere" including my hair? I have a cockerel chick I will have to get rid of since I can't have roosters here. Do I cull him? Do I just hope that it doesn't show up in any of the other hens? What about the wild birds, since the virus is "everywhere" on my property? All my chicken friends can't come over anymore w/o bathing b/4 they go home? Do I send her to state for autopsy? Should the state know?

 

[rebrascora]

OK. Firstly don't panic. I've had Marek's in my flock now for 3 years and it isn't nearly as bad as a lot of the stuff you read. Personally I only euthanize birds when they are no longer interested in food as they go downhill pretty quickly after that but I've had some survive and have a good quality of life for a year or more after their first attack. I appreciate that they are shedding virus whilst they are suffering an attack but I take the view that my flock has already been exposed to the virus anyway, so I can't justify killing a bird that is prepared to fight it.

I think it is important to be responsible about it and take reasonable steps not to spread it by passing on potentially infected birds to other people and being careful about visiting other people's flocks but you have to find a balance somewhere between being responsible and preventing serious risk and actually having a life. There are many people who have it in their flock and either don't know it or turn a blind eye to it and that includes local breeders who sell chickens from their flock. Here in the UK it seems to be less of an issue than in the US but then the strains we have seem to be milder. This may in part be due to the more widespread use of the vaccine than in the UK. There is some research to suggest that the vaccine causes the virus to mutate to more aggressive strains.

Firstly, of course, you need to be sure it is Marek's and whilst it looks like it to me, it can really only be confirmed via necropsy. I would not cull your 4 year old bird unless she stops showing an interest in food, but I'm a bit soft and as I said, I've seen some pretty miraculous recoveries from Marek's attacks, so I support them until they improve or decline. I would be careful with biosecurity until you have a diagnosis, but don't make life a pain in the process. Marek's is already out there on many other birds so don't make yourself a pariah, but be honest with people.

As regards the cockerel, I personally would cull and eat him or sell/give him to someone to do so.... there is no threat to human health from meat or eggs from Marek's birds.... although there usually isn't much meat on them because the disease causes muscle wastage. Just make sure he doesn't go to someone with chickens. It is not a notifiable disease as far as I am aware, so there is no requirement to inform the authorities.
I have concerns about the vaccine as mentioned above, so I don't vaccinate. I allow my broody hens to rear chicks within the exposed flock and as I said previously, I lost 3 out of 56 chicks to it last year. Dogs and foxes are a much bigger concern to me than Marek's, heart breaking as it is to lose any to it..... there is always some heart ache to balance the joy in chicken keeping as in most things in life.

Good luck with your girl and the rest of your flock, whatever you decide.

Regards

Barbara

 

[LeilaBlue1002]

I was really glad to read your post. I have about 20 chickens most of the time. Recently lost an 8-9 mos. old Bantam Cochin to Marek's. I doctored her with everything I could think of or find on line. She kept "talking" and laying eggs right up until her last day. I took her to the vet and he said I really needed to let her go. Wasn't going to regain use of her legs. Had her put to sleep and had a necropsy. It was Marek's. I too was worried that my whole flock was in danger. I keep everything as clean as I can but I am sure it's far from perfect. I have had a few other deaths this year. Didn't think they were due to Marek's but now I am wondering. Should I just take the best care of the rest as possible? I have been giving lots of vitamins lately and electrolytes in the water. I have 2 broody hens sitting on 3 eggs each right now.
Thanks!~

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I was really glad to read your post. I have about 20 chickens most of the time. Recently lost an 8-9 mos. old Bantam Cochin to Marek's. I doctored her with everything I could think of or find on line. She kept "talking" and laying eggs right up until her last day. I took her to the vet and he said I really needed to let her go. Wasn't going to regain use of her legs. Had her put to sleep and had a necropsy. It was Marek's. I too was worried that my whole flock was in danger. I keep everything as clean as I can but I am sure it's far from perfect. I have had a few other deaths this year. Didn't think they were due to Marek's but now I am wondering. Should I just take the best care of the rest as possible? I have been giving lots of vitamins lately and electrolytes in the water. I have 2 broody hens sitting on 3 eggs each right now.
Thanks!~

@LeilaBlue1002 I'm sorry to hear about your hen

It sounds like you are doing all you can for the rest of your flock.
Keep watch on the others and treat each case as it comes. I can't imagine what it is like to have deal with Marek's in a flock.

I'm sure Barbara @rebrascora will be happy to give you some care tips, she has been dealing with this for a while.

If you have not read this article by @Nambroth I think it would be worth your time. I have found it very useful: http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

 

[rebrascora]

@LeilaBlue1002

Hi

Sorry to hear you have had this horrible disease confirmed, but the best advice I can give is to keep your flock as happy and stress free as you can and supporting their immune system with vitamins and good nutrition is certainly beneficial. Worrying about it doesn't help (this from a world class worrier! )and just deal with each outbreak/victim as best you can, as and when it happens.
As I stated in my post above, I broody rear chicks within my flock with a reasonable amount of success, so there is reason to be hopeful. I don't do anything special and actually, my broody quarters double as the infirmary where many of my Marek's sick birds are cared for, so I would imagine chicks are exposed to the virus from day one. I think they have a far better chance of survival being hatched into that environment as being kept reasonably sterile in a brooder and then suddenly exposed at an age where they are more vulnerable to it. One of the triggers I find is the stress caused by too many adolescent cockerels causing mayhem in the flock, so be prepared to remove any male chicks at the 12-14 week mark. Raising the chicks with the broody in the flock is beneficial because there is no reintegration stress, but ensuring that she is not bothered by other hens climbing into her nest whilst she is brooding is also important, so providing her with her own nest rather than a communal one is best.
Not sure I can think of anything else at the moment but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[LeilaBlue1002]

@LeilaBlue1002

Hi

Sorry to hear you have had this horrible disease confirmed, but the best advice I can give is to keep your flock as happy and stress free as you can and supporting their immune system with vitamins and good nutrition is certainly beneficial. Worrying about it doesn't help (this from a world class worrier! )and just deal with each outbreak/victim as best you can, as and when it happens.
As I stated in my post above, I broody rear chicks within my flock with a reasonable amount of success, so there is reason to be hopeful. I don't do anything special and actually, my broody quarters double as the infirmary where many of my Marek's sick birds are cared for, so I would imagine chicks are exposed to the virus from day one. I think they have a far better chance of survival being hatched into that environment as being kept reasonably sterile in a brooder and then suddenly exposed at an age where they are more vulnerable to it. One of the triggers I find is the stress caused by too many adolescent cockerels causing mayhem in the flock, so be prepared to remove any male chicks at the 12-14 week mark. Raising the chicks with the broody in the flock is beneficial because there is no reintegration stress, but ensuring that she is not bothered by other hens climbing into her nest whilst she is brooding is also important, so providing her with her own nest rather than a communal one is best.
Not sure I can think of anything else at the moment but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Best wishes

Barbara