Marek's - I'm so confused

[LeilaBlue1002]

Hi Barbara -

Thanks for your reply! What other symptoms should I look for? I have had some other deaths in the past few years and am wondering now if more were Marek's related than I knew. This hen lost the use of both legs but I have had other illnesses that didn't involve any paralysis. Also - if they are sick and you are nursing them, trying to get them through it, what meds do you use? Or homeopathic treatments?

Thanks again!
Susan

 

[ronott1]

Hi Barbara -

Thanks for your reply! What other symptoms should I look for? I have had some other deaths in the past few years and am wondering now if more were Marek's related than I knew. This hen lost the use of both legs but I have had other illnesses that didn't involve any paralysis. Also - if they are sick and you are nursing them, trying to get them through it, what meds do you use? Or homeopathic treatments?

Thanks again!
Susan

mareks is a virus so there are no meds for it. You separate them give them vitamins, electrolytes and basically keep them as healthy as possible so that they can fight the virus.

Chickens die for a lot of reasons. It is very common to lose a couple of year as they age--Many do not make it much past age 4.

 

[rebrascora]

@LeilaBlue1002

Hi Susan

Marek's compromises the immune system like AIDS in humans, so infected birds are much more vulnerable to all the normal things that chickens can get but generally develop some tolerance/resistance to like coccidiosis, worms, respiratory infections and gut infections, so they will often die from these problems whereas other birds of the same age would shrug/fight them off. The Marek's virus also causes visceral tumours. Heart and lungs are commonly affected, resulting in some birds dying suddenly with no apparent symptoms or having respiratory problems that do not respond to treatment.

I don't have the funds for veterinary treatment for poultry and even if I did, having Marek's would sharp wipe them out! Using antibiotics is not really an option because it requires veterinary prescription. Keeping them as happy and stress free as possible is best. Until 7 months ago my flock free ranged in my horses paddocks and stables. Sunshine and Dr Grass are wonderful healers and I try to get Marek's sufferers out onto it, whenever the weather allows. I'm not a great herbalist or homeopathy enthusiast. I tried turmeric and black pepper a few years ago but the chickens rapidly got sick of it and there is no point in doctoring their food if they won't eat it....it just causes stress for them and you. The sick ones get scrambled egg a couple of times a week and sometimes nettle or spinach porridge, but mostly just regular food. I also have Nutri Drops which go on their food or in the water of the sick ones but I don't give it to the whole flock. They do however all get fermented feed at least as part of their daily ration and usually a little ACV in the water. Not sure how much any of that helps but the vitamin supplement should help support the immune system, however being out on grass in the sunshine has shown the most consistent benefits for my birds, especially if it can be managed with the company of other chickens. I take the view that my flock has been exposed, so I don't isolate sick birds as such, but keep them safe in a large cage within the flock. I do still lose some of course, but not nearly as many as some people.

It really is a question of trial and error. The problem is that the disease is so inconsistent that you might think something has worked because the bird appears to get better, but in fact it is just a natural ebb and flow of the disease.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@LeilaBlue1002

Hi Susan

Marek's compromises the immune system like AIDS in humans, so infected birds are much more vulnerable to all the normal things that chickens can get but generally develop some tolerance/resistance to like coccidiosis, worms, respiratory infections and gut infections, so they will often die from these problems whereas other birds of the same age would shrug/fight them off. The Marek's virus also causes visceral tumours. Heart and lungs are commonly affected, resulting in some birds dying suddenly with no apparent symptoms or having respiratory problems that do not respond to treatment.

I don't have the funds for veterinary treatment for poultry and even if I did, having Marek's would sharp wipe them out! Using antibiotics is not really an option because it requires veterinary prescription. Keeping them as happy and stress free as possible is best. Until 7 months ago my flock free ranged in my horses paddocks and stables. Sunshine and Dr Grass are wonderful healers and I try to get Marek's sufferers out onto it, whenever the weather allows. I'm not a great herbalist or homeopathy enthusiast. I tried turmeric and black pepper a few years ago but the chickens rapidly got sick of it and there is no point in doctoring their food if they won't eat it....it just causes stress for them and you. The sick ones get scrambled egg a couple of times a week and sometimes nettle or spinach porridge, but mostly just regular food. I also have Nutri Drops which go on their food or in the water of the sick ones but I don't give it to the whole flock. They do however all get fermented feed at least as part of their daily ration and usually a little ACV in the water. Not sure how much any of that helps but the vitamin supplement should help support the immune system, however being out on grass in the sunshine has shown the most consistent benefits for my birds, especially if it can be managed with the company of other chickens. I take the view that my flock has been exposed, so I don't isolate sick birds as such, but keep them safe in a large cage within the flock. I do still lose some of course, but not nearly as many as some people.

It really is a question of trial and error. The problem is that the disease is so inconsistent that you might think something has worked because the bird appears to get better, but in fact it is just a natural ebb and flow of the disease.

Barbara...this is well written and so helpful. Thank you again for sharing with us.

 

[microchick]

I am so sorry anyone has to go through Marek's in their flock

Many know that I too have been fighting this horrible disease in my flock since last June when I suffered the loss of my first bird. Since then I have lost something like 15-16 birds, the youngest 7 weeks, the oldest 25 months. My birds were bought from an NPIP breeder, unvaccinated, they were bred for resistance, but obviously, the strain of Marek's they were bred to resist was different than the one that is in our area. I practice good bio security. The only birds that were added to my flock their first summer came from their original breeder and were isolated. Marek's is everywhere. Please don't blame yourself or feel guilty because this has happened to your flock. Wild birds carry it, flies carry it. We have a wild fox that is dragging kills (poultry/guinea)through our property in order to dine lakeside. None of the birds are ours but even that exposure is all that it takes for you to wake up one morning to either find one of your chickens either mysteriously dead or paralysed.

I agree with Rebrascora and others who have said, don't panic. I agree that you need to get a definite diagnosis in hand. While your hen does look like she has contracted the disease, you will know for sure with a pathology report in your hand.I did not go the necropsy route. I have two hens and a rooster with grey eye. Until they developed the ocular form of Marek's, I was loosing birds regularly to either sudden death or having to put them down due to strange neuro symptoms, seizures, spinning in circles, panics, complete paralysis, etc. I am also blessed to have a wonderful husband who is a retired eye doctor. I asked him if he could look at my bird's with grey eye and tell me if it was ocular Mareks, and he was glad to. He has a portable slit lamp that he used at night and after looking at two birds his diagnosis was a shake of his head and one word. Herpes. Diagnosis confirmed.

I have lost my youngest birds to either sudden decline and death or classic Marek's paralysis. My older birds are appearing to be resistant to the first flare of the disease only to succumb later to wasting, seizures, respiratory distress or sudden death cardiac symptoms. My oldest hens are 29 months. 2 have grey eye. Several are underweight in spite of having food in front of them 24/7 along with healthy veggies and a regimented worming schedule. The disease has devastated my rooster population, and I love my roosters dearly...I have to. God gives me so many of them. But they quickly succumb to breeding stress once they reach sexual maturity. I have a lot of roosters. I imagine this time next year I will have less, but the ones that survive are going to be super birds, literally and in the mean time I know I will be loosing and burying more of my flock.

In the mean time, I'm trying to keep them healthy as possible. I know how you are feeling right now. I was literally sick when I added up all the numbers and came up with a sum that equaled Marek's disease. But if nothing else, please keep telling yourself that not all of your birds are going to die. Those birds are worth their weight in gold. They are resistant. Carriers, yes, but resistant and those are the birds that will help you continue your flock.

Also, close your flock. Many bring in only vaccinated birds. I brought two in myself recently when I had a singe orphaned chick that survived a hen attack when it was hatched. That little chick died last week at the age of 7 weeks. Fine when I locked them up the night before, the next morning I found her almost unconscious and dead within 3 hours. No symptoms. Faith and Hope, the two vaccinated little OEGB chicks are fat and sassy, so maybe there is some merit to brining in only vaccinated birds, but I can't be 100% sure of which strain of Marek's they were vaccinated against. By all appearance, I have all strains of the disease on our property. Isn't that just peachy?

But you will want to breed future birds from your survivors. That is what I am shooting for. And, like @rebrascora I have hens that just love to churn out chicks for me.

Don't give up. You are not alone. My best advice is to love your little hen every day that she is still with you and when the time comes, remember that the best gift of love you can give her is to let her go with grace and dignity. Don't be afraid to ask questions. We want to help.

 

[msyfoopoo]

Checking back in with the status on my 4 yo hen (Pearl) mentioned in the original post.

I put Pearl down, and had the vet do necropsy, and take samples to send to state pathologist. Pathologist confirmed Marek's. I have been busy notifying all chicken people in my county and bordering counties, as I think that is the responsible thing to do (and a chance to teach about Marek's)

It has been a learning experience, and I really appreciate the support and information from those dealing with Marek's in their flock. I am past the panic stage, though still sad I lost my langshen Pearl. All other hens, pullets, and the little cockerel are doing fine and show no symptoms of Marek's (yet??). I am going to keep the little cockerel Eugene as long as I can until the county comes and serves me notice to get rid of him. I'm hoping for tolerant neighbors.

Thanks again. Nan

 

[microchick]

@mysfoopoo, so sorry to hear that you lost your Pearl. Sometimes the kindest gift of love we can give our birds is to know when it is time to say goodbye and let their little spirits fly free.

WHOW! You notified everyone? I live in an area where about 75% of the people around me have poultry. Chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, you name it. My Marek's could have come from anywhere as my birds around us were there long before we moved in and most of our neighbors are Amish and if you asked them if they had any Marek's in their flocks they would just look puzzled and say "Huh?" Something dies on their farms, it gets tossed in a ravine and the vultures spread whatever it died of everywhere. Vaccination? Ummm no. They don't vaccinate their kids so I truly doubt if they are going to vaccinate their flocks.

I'm not kidding. You are to be commended.

I wish I had known just a little more about Marek's than I did when I got my flock. I would have definitely gotten vaccinated birds just to throw the odds a bit more in my and my bird's favor.

Good luck with the rest of your birds. Hopefully you can find a way to keep your rooster.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@msyfoopoo I'm sorry to hear you lost Pearl

Thank you for the update.

 

[rebrascora]

Likewise, so very sorry to read that Pearl is no more. She was a real beauty. Even more sad to hear that our suspicions regarding Marek's were correct. I am still quite surprised though with her being a mature bird, so it is helpful to know the result of her necropsy confirmed it. Many thanks for sharing it.
I hope any subsequent outbreaks are few and far between.
Best of luck keeping your young lad under the radar.... perhaps a "No Crow Collar" may help keep him quiet enough for the neighbours not to notice.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[orrpeople]

I am doing a bunch of reading about this because it is possible the bird I sent in for necropsy had the disease (haven't heard back yet, but am a "worst case scenario" planner). So, my question (I have a million, but will limit to just 1 ) is this: can a flock vaccinated for Mareks, so showing all signs of health, be carriers of the disease? For example, a breeder I work with vaccinated all his birds. Is it possible that they can still be carriers and he would never know? (I'm definitely not looking to blame anyone if my bird comes back positive - I know it can be transported on the wind just as easily!)