Meatie Experiment: FF 'vs' Crumbles

[jrsckn]

Given the slow growth at the beginning and the huddling under the heat lamp during the first week (or 2) I'm wondering if it would make sense to either:
- start the birds on dry crumble with ACV in the water OR
- give them a choice of dry or fermented for the first week (or 2)

Once the chicks have that strong initial start, switch to all FF.

I've got another batch coming - maybe that'll be my experiment.

That's what I'd do. I've given both feeds when converting chicks to ff and they've always chosen ff but I've only switched over chicks that were 2 and 6 weeks old and never CX. Honestly, I just don't think they could figure out how to eat it or maybe they didn't realize it was food. Once I put crumbles on it, they figured it out but by that time they were 2 days behind. Maybe if I had left it more soupy so they could drink it I would've had better results, I don't know. I'm just surprised I didn't lose any. I would offer both and let them choose. What really helped was putting a scoop of ff on a tupperware lid and then surrounding it with crumbles; they'd eat the crumbles then move on to the ff like a trail of bread crumbs lol. They've been bred for generations to eat crumbles so maybe their adaptive instincts are nonexistent.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

That is a very good question! I've been struggling with it a lot lately. I intend to slaughter all at the same time to determine the actual weight of the dressed bird for my calculations. I feel there is a possibility for lot of variation in water retention and offal weight from each group. But, I almost feel that I'm sacrificing the potential for a good sized bird in the name of science lol. In the end, if my birds don't have a good average weight by 8 weeks, I'll probably try to keep them all growing for a couple more weeks to get a better overall size.

Here is a scenario that I see at times.

Animals are slaughtered at the same age. Group 1 has a better feed conversion, and leaner carcasses than Group 2. However, the birds from Group 1 are 15% lighter than Group 2. Without looking at the entire database you can not determine which is "best".

 

[Kassaundra]

I don't understand why you would think the chicks eating ff would be retaining water. That is a product of dysfunction, normal healthy animals and humans don't retain water unless their diet is high in sodium or they have kidney or heart dysfunction.

 

[jrsckn]

Here is a scenario that I see at times.

Animals are slaughtered at the same age. Group 1 has a better feed conversion, and leaner carcasses than Group 2. However, the birds from Group 1 are 15% lighter than Group 2. Without looking at the entire database you can not determine which is "best".

I'm looking at overall feed conversion, which bird is cheaper per pound, not necessarily the larger bird because with time each bird could possibly reach the desired weight. I'm calculating effiency per week and overall so I can see both the short term and long term feed effects. The problem is live weight may not show the same results as the processed bird so all my calculations leading up to slaughter are just speculation. Honestly though, if the costs are similar per pound or even slightly higher, I personally think its worth it because the difference in waste and smell produced by the ff birds is lower. I live on an acre with limited area to raise meat birds so smell and ease of care are most important to me and my neighbors.

 

[jrsckn]

I don't understand why you would think the chicks eating ff would be retaining water. That is a product of dysfunction, normal healthy animals and humans don't retain water unless their diet is high in sodium or they have kidney or heart dysfunction.

I don't think the birds are necessarily retaining water. I meant that I think there may be internal differences between the groups of chicks eating crumbles and the chicks eating ff which isn't directly related to muscle mass; water retention, organ size, amount of food in the digestive tract, etc. I just meant that even though the CC weigh more now, it might be caused by something other than increased muscle meat and the processed weights are more valuable than live weights. I hope that was a little more clear.

 

[Kassaundra]

I don't think the birds are necessarily retaining water. I meant that I think there may be internal differences between the groups of chicks eating crumbles and the chicks eating ff which isn't directly related to muscle mass; water retention, organ size, amount of food in the digestive tract, etc. I just meant that even though the CC weigh more now, it might be caused by something other than increased muscle meat and the processed weights are more valuable than live weights. I hope that was a little more clear.

 

[jrsckn]

Awesome

DH tells me I over analyze things which causes me to over-elaborate and completely fail to get my point across while alienating everyone I'm talking to (which makes me perfect for science and medicine

) Baby steps he tells me, one sentence at a time lol.

 

[jrsckn]

Day 20 6/18/12 Mon

Fed bucket #13 and started #15 fermenting, 6pm feeder was almost empty so I gave them a small scoop from bucket #14
Didn't have to add feed to CC but it was almost empty at 9pm
Total feed: 54C CC and 92C FFC+one scoop from bucket #14 so probably 93C ff

For those interested in water intake, the 8 CC are consuming more water than the 18 FFC in the same period of time. Using hanging 1 gal waterers I filled both at the same time and the 18 FFC have 3&3/4" left and the CC have 3" left; they are drinking more than double the amount of the FFC.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Day 20 6/18/12 Mon

Fed bucket #13 and started #15 fermenting, 6pm feeder was almost empty so I gave them a small scoop from bucket #14
Didn't have to add feed to CC but it was almost empty at 9pm
Total feed: 54C CC and 92C FFC+one scoop from bucket #14 so probably 93C ff

For those interested in water intake, the 8 CC are consuming more water than the 18 FFC in the same period of time. Using hanging 1 gal waterers I filled both at the same time and the 18 FFC have 3&3/4" left and the CC have 3" left; they are drinking more than double the amount of the FFC.

Are you weighing your feed or just using volumetric measurements? Is all the feed from the same batch/lot?

 

[jrsckn]

Are you weighing your feed or just using volumetric measurements? Is all the feed from the same batch/lot?

I'm using a 4C scoop leveled off and have weighed the amount of feed that fits in it. It weighs out at 5oz/C. I know I should have weighed each scoop individually but I was already over a week into the experiment when I realized my error. I have been careful when scooping and don't feel the %error will skew my results too much.

As for the feed, I just started feeding out of my 2nd bag on Saturday so I'd have to check the bags and see.