Mereks

[JacinLarkwell]

The time has come, and I think I have mareks in at least one of my flocks

Since November, I've lost pullets at a steady rate, only ever one at a time, but all showing somewhat similar symptoms. They would suddenly lose enormous amounts of weight (think a .5 or even less on the body chart picture for chickens instead of a 2 or 3 they're supposed to be at), and stopped flying. Some were still active and acted like nothing was wrong, and they all either (appropriately) increased appetite or stopped eating all the same. And then suddenly they would be dead. I had 2 that literally were fine and acting like they might get better, and then a half hour later they were growing stiff.

All were between 4 and 7 months, and all but possibly one (too young to sex for my experience) were pullets that hadn't started laying.

One sumatra
One Salmon Faverolle
2, possibly 3 and possibly another 2 soon, phoenixes

We did investigate one of the pheonixes about 3 weeks ago(?) because we were getting desperate for answers and found this on her liver:

We recently lost some birds to the cold and decided to look at them and pray that they were fine inside. My male I looked at was even worse, his entire liver was just these bumps and fell apart in our hands (to be fair though he had been frozen so we're not sure if that had to do with it or not).

I'm devastated now, and I have huge orders of chicks coming in a week so I need to figure out my options. I'm currently trying to contact the hatcheries to see if I can add vaccinations to my orders now so I don't lose as many.

As far as I understand, I have 2 options:
1 Continue as if nothing happened and just never sell live birds or chicks from this property that are in contact or May have been exposed (these new chicks will never be out where the others were and I will now be doing a whole new routine for care to try and avoid any possible contamination.
2 cull every bird i own and not own them any more.

I have questions now though that I can't seem to get solid answers on and I'm just trying to cling to any hope I can now
1 If I collect eggs, wash them and incubate myself, will the chicks carry mareks? Or does the shell protect them?
2 Are there breeds that are better at not dying from this?
3 Cam I vaccinate older birds at all to give them a chance since they already have been in contact? Or am I basically waiting for them to just die?
4 if I end up culling, are they safe to consume if cooked properly, or are they just landfill space?
4 how exactly does it spread? By air? By touch, by feces?
5 Can turkeys get or give it to chickens? What about Quail?
6 I have 4 seperate flocks I used the same gear (coat amd boots) to feed and care for. They never interact with each other but because of the gear can I assume every single bird I own has it?

I'm just devestated. We think we know where it came from, but we had properly quarantined said bird and everything and she showed no signs until months after we let her loose in the flock. I'll probably have more questions when I wake up, I'm just too tired and emotional to keep thinking

 

[ackie]

in my understanding, which is by no means expertise:

1. mareks doesn't transfer to the chicks in ovo.
2. yes ish. there's an idea that breeds closer to the original wild chicken are heartier. my 2 cents here is... if someone breeds for egg production and just selects the best egg producers generation after generation, other traits that you aren't optimizing are inherently going to suffer - including vigor of the birds.
3. you can only vaccinate in ovo or day old chicks. I havent researched why. my understanding again though is that your older ones wont necessarily fall ill unless something happens to stress them severely and give mareks a foothold to take over. My understanding atm is that ... if they've made it this far, their immune system is relatively capable of fighting it, but anything that lessens their immune system could cause it to surface. that's true of MS/MG and I think it applies here as well but I'm not sure.
4. yes they are safe to consume, they just may have unsightly tumors
4 (part 2). I think its spreads by dander? so just...everything everywhere always.
5. I dont know about other birds.
6. What I've mostly heard is - if you're subscribing to the omg biosecurity side of things - to assume they all have it if contaminated stuff goes between flocks.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

in my understanding, which is by no means expertise:

1. mareks doesn't transfer to the chicks in ovo.
2. yes ish. there's an idea that breeds closer to the original wild chicken are heartier. my 2 cents here is... if someone breeds for egg production and just selects the best egg producers generation after generation, other traits that you aren't optimizing are inherently going to suffer - including vigor of the birds.
3. you can only vaccinate in ovo or day old chicks. I havent researched why. my understanding again though is that your older ones wont necessarily fall ill unless something happens to stress them severely and give mareks a foothold to take over. My understanding atm is that ... if they've made it this far, their immune system is relatively capable of fighting it, but anything that lessens their immune system could cause it to surface. that's true of MS/MG and I think it applies here as well but I'm not sure.
4. yes they are safe to consume, they just may have unsightly tumors
4 (part 2). I think its spreads by dander? so just...everything everywhere always.
5. I dont know about other birds.
6. What I've mostly heard is - if you're subscribing to the omg biosecurity side of things - to assume they all have it if contaminated stuff goes between flocks.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

Okay, so my 5 year olds should be fine unless they become stressed badly? Honestly they're the ones I'm really concerned about, since I've developed actual feelings for them.

And broody hatched chicks will still contract it because of the dander. But theoretically they won't all die off every single time. Just asking because my pheonixes are notorious for brooding and I hate to decide that they will never again raise any chicks

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Also I know that the vaccine comes in large batches that are impossible for small producers to use it all, but does anyone have more information about that? I have some chicks I was planning on that won't come vaccinated but I could always get eggs instead of it seems better to just pay the money and vaccinate (I know it will be far more per chick than buying a vaccinated one in a hatchery, but I can't get these breeds from a hatchery)

 

[Orpingtons Mom]

Nothing to offer to help here, but I just want to say prayers are coming your way for a positive outcome. I’m so sorry for your losses. { hugs}

 

[ackie]

I was hoping someone would confirm what I'm saying in case I'm incorrect.

Okay, so my 5 year olds should be fine unless they become stressed badly? Honestly they're the ones I'm really concerned about, since I've developed actual feelings for them.

My assumption is that they will be less likely to die than chicks with fledgling immune systems, but since they didnt grow up around it... I dont know. I assume the ones that survive it in infancy and grow up with it wouldn't succumb to it in adulthood unless stressed, until they're of an age when their immune system starts to decline naturally.

I have some chicks I was planning on that won't come vaccinated but I could always get eggs instead of it seems better to just pay the money and vaccinate

That sounds like a good plan. I dont know cost but I assume it's fairly doable if you hatch a large amount of chicks infrequently. The main issue is if you want to hatch a small amount of chicks often because the vial is only good for so long once its mixed. But the vaccine doesn't guarantee they wont get sick, it's just a lot less likely, and they will still carry the virus and be able to spread it.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

And I know they can still get sick, but a vaccinated chicken will not give the disease to a non vaccinated bird if both are not sick, correct?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

And I know they can still get sick, but a vaccinated chicken will not give the disease to a non vaccinated bird if both are not sick, correct?

First, I have not yet seen that and want to call in someone who might have ideas.. @casportpony @Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock what are those spots?!

Please send in some for necropsy and get a full diagnostic ran. Here is a link with state poultry lab contact info..

State poultry labs

Regarding the MDv vaccine, not saying that's what this is.. I just looked into it since I'm hatching Cemani and my friend is a softee.. it comes in 1000 dose vial.. and you need to use a 1 ml insulin syringe for about every 3 chicks to maintain sharpness likely. It MUST be stored at the correct temperature during transport, storage, etc. It needs to be given around 24 hours or AS soon as they come out of the bator.. the vaccine itself MUST be utilized withing TWO hours of mixing.

No a vaccinated chick will not transfer what doesn't exist to flock mates nor will flock mates transmit what doesn't exist to new comers.. but anything existing CAN be caught, carried, transmitted WITHOUT detectable symptoms on either party's part.

Off to get puppy vaccines real quick. Hang in there and thank you for being brave enough to try and find answers!

 

[ackie]

And I know they can still get sick, but a vaccinated chicken will not give the disease to a non vaccinated bird if both are not sick, correct?

oh no no.
the mareks vaccine is "leaky" which basically means the vaccinated chicken will more likely than not, not get sick & will survive. but they WILL still carry the disease in their dander and can infect other chickens. if the other chickens are vaccinated, they will have the same thing happen to them. if they are unvaccinated, the chickens most likely will get sick and some can die.

I've chosen not to vaccinate my birds because I would rather infected birds die than feel fine and carry it around to all the others. like if you had the flu and were bedridden, you'd infect a lot less people than if you had the flu with no symptoms and kept going to school or work like normal because you felt fine.

 

[ackie]

but giving the vaccine doesn't make any chickens have the virus, to be more clear. so vaccinating a bird doesn't harm anything if there is no mareks in their environment. however, if mareks does enter their environment, the vaccinated ones are more likely to survive as carriers than unvaccinated ones, which can help the virus live on and get stronger.