Mereks

[JacinLarkwell]

First, I have not yet seen that and want to call in someone who might have ideas.. @casportpony @Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock what are those spots?!

Please send in some for necropsy and get a full diagnostic ran. Here is a link with state poultry lab contact info..

State poultry labs

Regarding the MDv vaccine, not saying that's what this is.. I just looked into it since I'm hatching Cemani and my friend is a softee.. it comes in 1000 dose vial.. and you need to use a 1 ml insulin syringe for about every 3 chicks to maintain sharpness likely. It MUST be stored at the correct temperature during transport, storage, etc. It needs to be given around 24 hours or AS soon as they come out of the bator.. the vaccine itself MUST be utilized withing TWO hours of mixing.

No a vaccinated chick will not transfer what doesn't exist to flock mates nor will flock mates transmit what doesn't exist to new comers.. but anything existing CAN be caught, carried, transmitted WITHOUT detectable symptoms on either party's part.

Off to get puppy vaccines real quick. Hang in there and thank you for being brave enough to try and find answers!

The next bird we lose will be sent in. We hadn't expected to find anything honestly

 

[JacinLarkwell]

but giving the vaccine doesn't make any chickens have the virus, to be more clear. so vaccinating a bird doesn't harm anything if there is no mareks in their environment. however, if mareks does enter their environment, the vaccinated ones are more likely to survive as carriers than unvaccinated ones, which can help the virus live on and get stronger.

But if I have a noninfected vaccinated one, it will not get A noninfected unvaccinated one sick?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I have not seen that. Getting testing from your state lab would be best since you are losing a lot of birds.

 

[ackie]

But if I have a noninfected vaccinated one, it will not get A noninfected unvaccinated one sick?

yes. if there is no mareks in the environment, no one gets mareks.

vaccinating a bird isnt introducing mareks into the environment.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

yes. if there is no mareks in the environment, no one gets mareks.

vaccinating a bird isnt introducing mareks into the environment.

Okay, that was my main concern now with these chicks

 

[EggSighted4Life]

yes. if there is no mareks in the environment, no one gets mareks.

vaccinating a bird isnt introducing mareks into the environment.

Agreed.. Marek's vaccine given to chicken chicks is actually a DEAD or weakened turkey herpes virus and doesn't even contain the strains known to actually infect chickens. I always wonder if it then makes them infectious to turkeys for those who keep both species.

According to the state poultry vet at UC Davis in California.. Mdv is "ubiquitous in poultry environments".

But, boy was I shocked just now to find out that Marek's vaccine is essentially.. GENETIC MODIFICATION.. I thought everyone is anti- gmo.. WTF!

https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/articles/2016/11/how-vaccines-ward-off-chicken-disease

That link also says it's leading to more virulent forms furthering the need to DEVELOP improved vaccines!

https://ucanr.edu/sites/aves/files/336235.pdf

Hmm, it's getting more interesting!

I don't think all gmo's or bad or created equal.. but I do believe that educated choices are the best ones.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Agreed.. Marek's vaccine given to chicken chicks is actually a DEAD or weakened turkey herpes virus and doesn't even contain the strains known to actually infect chickens. I always wonder if it then makes them infectious to turkeys for those who keep both species.

According to the state poultry vet at UC Davis in California.. Mdv is "ubiquitous in poultry environments".

But, boy was I shocked just now to find out that Marek's vaccine is essentially.. GENETIC MODIFICATION.. I thought everyone is anti- gmo.. WTF!

https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/articles/2016/11/how-vaccines-ward-off-chicken-disease

That link also says it's leading to more virulent forms furthering the need to DEVELOP improved vaccines!

https://ucanr.edu/sites/aves/files/336235.pdf

Hmm, it's getting more interesting!

I don't think all gmo's or bad or created equal.. but I do believe that educated choices are the best ones.

Is it possible a turkey with mareks could give mareks to chickens at all?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Is it possible a turkey with mareks could give mareks to chickens at all?

The thing is this.. many animals can carry strains of something that isn't effecting them that MIGHT effect another species..

An example is Coccidia.. there are 9-11 strains KNOWN to effect chickens.. But other strains that may effect dogs, goats, cows.. Any of those species could be carrying strains that effect another animal without it impacting them at all..

So a chicken can NOT catch Turkey herpes. And a turkey can NOT catch chicken herpes.. but can either carry the other and pass it around.. I personally feel hard pressed to think they CAN.. otherwise how does it hitch a ride on other wild birds?? There are wild turkey in lots of locations, and it's said to travel up to 2 miles on the air.

Have you already absorbed info from the following link? If not, maybe it can give more clear answers than I am able..

Marek's Virus FAQ

Also I would look at some of the necropsy threads and see if anyone on there can look at your photo.. maybe they will have seen those spots.. I haven;t taken time to look through Dr google yet for you.. maybe your state vet will give a look via email and give a free professional opinion??

 

[JacinLarkwell]

The thing is this.. many animals can carry strains of something that isn't effecting them that MIGHT effect another species..

An example is Coccidia.. there are 9-11 strains KNOWN to effect chickens.. But other strains that may effect dogs, goats, cows.. Any of those species could be carrying strains that effect another animal without it impacting them at all..

So a chicken can NOT catch Turkey herpes. And a turkey can NOT catch chicken herpes.. but can either carry the other and pass it around.. I personally feel hard pressed to think they CAN.. otherwise how does it hitch a ride on other wild birds?? There are wild turkey in lots of locations, and it's said to travel up to 2 miles on the air.

Have you already absorbed info from the following link? If not, maybe it can give more clear answers than I am able..

Marek's Virus FAQ

Also I would look at some of the necropsy threads and see if anyone on there can look at your photo.. maybe they will have seen those spots.. I haven;t taken time to look through Dr google yet for you.. maybe your state vet will give a look via email and give a free professional opinion??

I'll take a look at the FAQ, and the necropsy one. The liver was the only organ in the pullet that was affected and I think the only organ on the male that was affected (He was an Ayam Cemani so mostly everything was the same color and we couldn't tell really).

Google has so far given me like 5 or 6 possible things, all sounding worse than the last honestly so I stopped looking since I really couldn't find anything concrete.

I asked about turkeys because we had 2, and one we put down that had almost positive symptoms. Creeping paralysis until it was just his head he could move, and now his brother seems to be paralysed on one side (foot can't be used except as support and his wing is limp on the same side and his neck is crooked slightly to that side)

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I asked about turkeys because we had 2,

Oh, sorry to hear that. It's been a rough go for you!

I'm sorta dumb for asking if you looked into black head.. since I don't know anything about that or turkey MDV.. my friend that had it hit her chickens this year did NOT have it show up her turkeys so far and doesn't have any vaccinated birds that we're aware of. I know you have a pretty good grasp on things but just in case it's a possibility and somehow got missed??

There are many things that can mimic Marek's including lymphoid leukosis, malnutrition/absorption, equine encephalitis, some spleen infections, and more.. I don't even know how to identify a spleen yet. I've looked at a few livers, though never a Marek's symptom bird, just at harvesting which so far look normal.

Forget fear monger google, lets reach for truth to the best of our ability..

Merk VET manual is available in a "pet/consumer version" if you desire less information, but is one of my favorite resources.. noting Mdv is listed under neoplasms..

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry

Another good resource.. not sure if it will help with this but it's solid information..

Avian Disease Manual 7th Edition