minimal feeding requirements

[Little Fuzzy]

I've never wormed my chickens, this group or my prior group when I was young. I do pay attention to their poop though.

 

[casportpony]

So to sum it up, since this is about saving $ feeding... broody raised or MHP/ heating cave raised chicks should have less consumption than those under a lamp. And in many breeds has been proven to increase fertility by not having birds overfed during their growing cycle. So what they are doing to keep meaties from getting to fat too fast... by restricting feed is actually natural and being awake porking out all night isn't? Go figure!

Broody raised will eat less, that I have seen. Have any studies been done on feed consumption of chicks brooded under heat lamps vs chicks brooded with MHP or plates?

 

[casportpony]

For those doing at home fecals:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1047614/doing-fecal-floats-at-home

I was checking out the preview of Damerow's 2nd edition of the Chicken Health Handbook on Amazon.com. On p. 187 are instructions for doing fecal floats, pp. 193-5 give a visual key to worm eggs, and p. 202 gives a visual key to coccidia. It is certainly more affordable than veterinary parasitology books, especially since these usually have even fewer pictures of poultry parasites.

KsKingBee inspired me to add a camera ($30!) to my old microscope. I also ordered a Gram staining kit ($20) that will let me see both yeast and bacteria. I'll report back on how this works out.

This vet says centrifugation is the way to go http://www.capcvet.org/expert-articles/why-fecal-centrifugation-is-better/

"I perform an interesting exercise every year in my parasitology class by using a fecal sample from a dog with a hookworm burden typical of what practitioners would see in pet dogs. The students are divided into three groups. One group performs a direct smear, another group mixes 2 g of feces with flotation solution and performs a passive flotation procedure, and the third group uses 2 g of feces and performs the centrifugal flotation procedure.
Each year the results are graphic. Usually only 25% of the students performing the direct smear recover hookworm eggs. About 70% of the students performing the passive flotation procedure report seeing hookworm eggs. And every year, without exception, 100% of the students performing the centrifugal flotation procedure report recovering hookworm eggs. This simple exercise convinces my students of the improved sensitivity of centrifugation. Improved recovery rates using centrifugal flotation procedures are also substantiated by published studies.1-4"
I may have to ask Santa for one...

I've been doing this a few years now.

I have trouble even though I worked with microscopes in my professional career and have copies of Foreyt* 5th ed. and other pubs with photos of poultry-specific parasites. *note Foreyt is ~$50 used, and only has 3 pages of photomicrographs of avian internal parasites. Just saying....

You can do it, just know the learning curve is steep and long. It might be better if you have a centrifuge and a tea strainer! Note that bubbles and gunk can look a lot like parasite eggs or cysts (see http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/fecal-float.html#fecal-matter).

I've found these sites useful - they are for goats, but the types of parasites are similar.
https://hoeggerfarmyard.com/no-vet-ok-you-can-do-this/
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm
http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/fecal-flotation.html

My reading suggests that a few eimeria (coccidia) and a few worm eggs are to be expected and are not a problem. It's when you see a lot that you have a problem.

Here are some helpful ID sites:

http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/36.pdf
https://instruction.cvhs.okstate.edu/jcfox/htdocs/clinpara/Index.htm
https://quizlet.com/subject/poultry-parasites/

Also, make sure you have a clear schedule - if you leave the samples in the flotation medium too long they warp and crystals form in the slide. This happens to me when I have more than a 3-4 samples to process.

You can also do a wet smear - this doesn't concentrate the eggs/cysts like the flotation process does, but it's a good quick and dirty (yes, a pun).

The hard-core use a McMaster sampling slide to monitor counts of parasite eggs and cysts weekly!
http://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/McMaster-Test_Final3.pdf

I've been toying with the idea of a home PCR set up to identify bacteria and viruses, but that would get expensive and take up way too much of the kitchen

Good luck!

 

[3riverschick]

Notwithstanding this is actually a feeding thread... but if you're looking for laboratory equipment try http://www.labx.com . it is the eBay of the lab Surplus World. great place if you're looking for unusual stuff like centrifuges, or just microscopes or lab glassware. Karen

 

[EggSighted4Life]

...

The first statement about chicks who sleep through the night "should" have less consumption... is my deductive reasoning and I have no studies for it. But in theory a sleeping animal will be using less calories to sleep than to run around... so if they eat to meet their energy needs then I would think the overall consumption would be less.

I will look for the study that shows increased fertility in birds that have maintained their weight as opposed to being overweight.

Thank you for asking where I got my info...I really hate to see mis-truths propagated!

 

[junebuggena]

I use the heating pad method for brooding. It's not just that they don't eat at night, but that they also get a full 10 to 12 hours of solid rest. Heat lamp chicks don't get that kind of sleep. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the amount of feed consumed when compared with raising chicks under a heat lamp, which I've also done several times. Heating pad chicks grow faster, and they feather in sooner.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I use the heating pad method for brooding. It's not just that they don't eat at night, but that they also get a full 10 to 12 hours of solid rest. Heat lamp chicks don't get that kind of sleep. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the amount of feed consumed when compared with raising chicks under a heat lamp, which I've also done several times. Heating pad chicks grow faster, and they feather in sooner.

I find this statement interesting considering that feather growth is determined by genetics (I think) and that has not been my experience with my broody, outdoor chicks verses my heat lamp chicks. Lamp chicks were larger faster even though the ones raised by the broody were all boys and heat lamp were all girls. And I kept a close eye on feather rate since that's what so many claim. They feathered at exactly the same rate as each other with exception to the minor variations of being individuals.

I do fully believe that the full rest of cave chicks is vital to development. Our bodies and brains very literally cannot function without sleep! Ever try?

I know we all have different experiences though... and as far as pullets laying sooner being on FF... My White leghorn didn't lay until 22 weeks, when I was told they start at 16. And my birds from the same batch as each other and same breed, not my neighbors, laid at differing times. My 3 BR starting laying at 20, 22, and 24 weeks and all are on FF. So if my neighbor ended up with the 3rd bird I could claim mine lay sooner... but having all the information being equal, I will say that when they lay may have some influence from their nutrition... but again it's genetics, IMHO.

Interesting how even with the same info, we have different understandings.

Also, I wonder if not noticing a difference in consumption between MHP and lamp chicks is relative to not being concerned about every penny and therefor maybe not keeping track per say? Or if it's actually just a minimal difference.

 

[simplify]

Hey all,
I sometimes feel that i am causing more work and strife raising my chickens. My grandmother raised 30+ chickens for 60 yrs and never seemed to fret over them unless one was missing. I only remember her saying that those chickens were eating her out of house and home. There is a guy on you tube (eco ranch,he is in florida) that has good info on chicken feed,and as with everything we read or told you have to see if it makes sense to you as we all understand things differently. I buy a 16% layer pellet that is in a generic white bag with only the food information on it so it is only $11 per 50 lbs. Winter snack is my own mix of oats,shelled corn and black sunflower seeds. This was to help with the protien and oil for added warmth. They free range half a day. I keep acv w mother in thier water. 10 slw hens, 6 welsumers,3 bo (2 roos) They average 16 eggs day with the slw being the most productive. Winter feeding they were eating about 60 lbs a month. Lol, i just realized how many lbs this is per bird as i always just thought in number of bags. My last thing for protien, i hang a maggot jar in each ckn run every few weeks but sure they are getting plenty with bugs,frogs,lizzards.
I sure enjoy my chicken life.

 

[junebuggena]

I find this statement interesting considering that feather growth is determined by genetics (I think) and that has not been my experience with my broody, outdoor chicks verses my heat lamp chicks. Lamp chicks were larger faster even though the ones raised by the broody were all boys and heat lamp were all girls. And I kept a close eye on feather rate since that's what so many claim. They feathered at exactly the same rate as each other with exception to the minor variations of being individuals.

I do fully believe that the full rest of cave chicks is vital to development. Our bodies and brains very literally cannot function without sleep! Ever try?

I know we all have different experiences though... and as far as pullets laying sooner being on FF... My White leghorn didn't lay until 22 weeks, when I was told they start at 16. And my birds from the same batch as each other and same breed, not my neighbors, laid at differing times. My 3 BR starting laying at 20, 22, and 24 weeks and all are on FF. So if my neighbor ended up with the 3rd bird I could claim mine lay sooner... but having all the information being equal, I will say that when they lay may have some influence from their nutrition... but again it's genetics, IMHO.

Interesting how even with the same info, we have different understandings.

Also, I wonder if not noticing a difference in consumption between MHP and lamp chicks is relative to not being concerned about every penny and therefor maybe not keeping track per say? Or if it's actually just a minimal difference.

Genetics isn't much of a factor considering that all the chicks I raise have the same parentage. The difference has not been genetics, but heat source. All other aspects have been identical. Brooder is the same, location is the same, parentage is the same, feed is the same.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hey all,
I sometimes feel that i am causing more work and strife raising my chickens. My grandmother raised 30+ chickens for 60 yrs and never seemed to fret over them unless one was missing. I only remember her saying that those chickens were eating her out of house and home. There is a guy on you tube (eco ranch,he is in florida) that has good info on chicken feed,and as with everything we read or told you have to see if it makes sense to you as we all understand things differently. I buy a 16% layer pellet that is in a generic white bag with only the food information on it so it is only $11 per 50 lbs. Winter snack is my own mix of oats,shelled corn and black sunflower seeds. This was to help with the protien and oil for added warmth. They free range half a day. I keep acv w mother in thier water. 10 slw hens, 6 welsumers,3 bo (2 roos) They average 16 eggs day with the slw being the most productive. Winter feeding they were eating about 60 lbs a month. Lol, i just realized how many lbs this is per bird as i always just thought in number of bags. My last thing for protien, i hang a maggot jar in each ckn run every few weeks but sure they are getting plenty with bugs,frogs,lizzards.
I sure enjoy my chicken life.

I see you say winter snack is to help with protein and warmth... It is feathers that keep them warm.

Corn is dumbing down the protein (it's only 8%) while maintaining the same caloric load with WAY less nutrients. Oats are 17% protein and 7% fat. I think BOSS is 15% protein and 28% fat. So only the oats are actually adding protein to your layer pellets. And all are high in fat.

Chicken body temp is regulated from within and yes they use calories to that. It does not matter what those calories come from. But if you can provide the same amount of calories with something more nutrient dense, then you would get better overall health.

Been researching this whole maggot bucket idea... I wonder what happens to the maggots that crawl out during the night? How long have you been doing it? Ever attract predators and what kind are notorious in your area?