Missouri Dominique Project

Wanderers tales

In the Brooder
Jul 7, 2020
13
4
13
Several years back I got interested in American Dominiques. That was in part because of my grandmother that operated a hatching egg production operation for a local hatchery always talked about them with high regard. Then a co-worker gave an cock that one the best of of class at Missouri state fair a few years back. I then set out to acquire American Dominiques from various sources and found they differed greatly with some looking very strongly to have Barred Plymouth Rock mixed in. It was also apparent the better show birds deviated not only from what descriptions of American Dominique were back in the early part of the last century, they also look even more different from the dunghills that had actual significance to small poultry raisers. So what I did it split the effort into two projects with both coming into year seven.

First is with pure American Dominiques based largely on the Voter strain. The cock was mostly if not all Voter and I also got four Voter hens from Fred Farthing. Breeding with that group and some of the others resulting in only a little additional blood also coming from Fred Farthing being carried forward. Other birds either infirm or deviated too much from what I was trying to achieve.

Second is the Missouri Dominique project where Cackle Strain American Dominiques were crossed with my American Game strain with subsequent infusions of Voter strain resulting in birds that are between 1/2 and 3/4 American Dominique. Emphasis to date has been on type and growth rate although always at least one parent had to carry one copy of barred, rose comb and extended black alleles. I am not out the point where most are homozygous for those alleles while conserving type and getting mature weights very similar to what is expected for American Dominiques. One more challenge is ahead to match that Dominique dunghill of old and it involves leg color.

The older version of Dominiques did not have yellow legs or skin that is allegedly infused by crossing with Black Java's. Rather the old style Dominiques had white legs. I am now looking for American Games that carry the white leg genetics to make that final introduction of new blood.
If I’m not mistaken I believe you seek to resurrect an old breed correct ? What’s the purpose for doing that ? I mean often old breeds are forgotten because they have no specific use, other than to simply be preserved for future generations to see. But then again they don’t have anything unique enough for future generations to be interested in. If you manage to finally succeed in resurrecting this breed what are the chances that future generations would bother do the same ? If I myself for instance try to Preserve a strong bloodline or resurrect an endangered/extinct strain, I’d go with the more popular ones. The ones that people will care about. Like the long extinct Kurdish peacocks. Unfortunately I don’t have the necessary resources nor time to do that.
 

centrarchid

Crossing the Road
Sep 19, 2009
26,297
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Holts Summit, Missouri
If I’m not mistaken I believe you seek to resurrect an old breed correct ? What’s the purpose for doing that ? I mean often old breeds are forgotten because they have no specific use, other than to simply be preserved for future generations to see. But then again they don’t have anything unique enough for future generations to be interested in. If you manage to finally succeed in resurrecting this breed what are the chances that future generations would bother do the same ? If I myself for instance try to Preserve a strong bloodline or resurrect an endangered/extinct strain, I’d go with the more popular ones. The ones that people will care about. Like the long extinct Kurdish peacocks. Unfortunately I don’t have the necessary resources nor time to do that.
It is a hobby and I have the resources. What I am making will look like the original Dominique, but only look. Even the extant American Dominique persist only because of fancy interest rather than economic value. Most breeds of the backyard are that way. Peacocks, regardless of strain / species are supported by fancy rather than actual need.
 

Wanderers tales

In the Brooder
Jul 7, 2020
13
4
13
It is a hobby and I have the resources. What I am making will look like the original Dominique, but only look. Even the extant American Dominique persist only because of fancy interest rather than economic value. Most breeds of the backyard are that way. Peacocks, regardless of strain / species are supported by fancy rather than actual need.
Good point. However keep in mind not all popular modern day breeds are known for their looks some are valued for their meat and some for their egg production. Are the ones you’re trying to make good layers or are they big enough to be relied on for meat ? I too have hobbies but life is short if you’re gonna spend it on something you enjoy doing, why not on something you enjoy doing and at the same time people would remember ?
 

centrarchid

Crossing the Road
Sep 19, 2009
26,297
17,343
786
Holts Summit, Missouri
Good point. However keep in mind not all popular modern day breeds are known for their looks some are valued for their meat and some for their egg production. Are the ones you’re trying to make good layers or are they big enough to be relied on for meat ? I too have hobbies but life is short if you’re gonna spend it on something you enjoy doing, why not on something you enjoy doing and at the same time people would remember ?
Because I am! The stock is being selected for dual purpose production (table eggs and meat) while getting a significant portion of needs through. Getting people interested also involves developing story. Your line of questions suggest you think I was born yesterday or early this morning.
 

Wanderers tales

In the Brooder
Jul 7, 2020
13
4
13
Im
Because I am! The stock is being selected for dual purpose production (table eggs and meat) while getting a significant portion of needs through. Getting people interested also involves developing story. Your line of questions suggest you think I was born yesterday or early this morning.
I’m not trying to be rude I’m just overly curious. So thanks for your answers.
 

centrarchid

Crossing the Road
Sep 19, 2009
26,297
17,343
786
Holts Summit, Missouri
Owing to resource limitations, this project is about to be terminated after investing a decade. Choices being made as to what can be pursued and being worth effort. Pictures of how the birds currently look will be posted after a very heavy culling reduces flock for four individuals and they come into adult feather. This can serve as an example as to how difficult it is to develop a breed. Not a total failure as during same time frame a line of games has been developed that I will attempt to market as an ornamental.
 

Alaskan

The Frosted Flake
Premium Feather Member
Jul 26, 2008
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Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
My Coop
Owing to resource limitations, this project is about to be terminated after investing a decade. Choices being made as to what can be pursued and being worth effort. Pictures of how the birds currently look will be posted after a very heavy culling reduces flock for four individuals and they come into adult feather. This can serve as an example as to how difficult it is to develop a breed. Not a total failure as during same time frame a line of games has been developed that I will attempt to market as an ornamental.
Sorry for the hard choices...

Glad for the update
 

halefamily_flock

Chirping
Sep 16, 2020
227
464
83
Southeast Misssouri
Owing to resource limitations, this project is about to be terminated after investing a decade.
I'm sorry to hear you have to shut down your project. It sounds like quite an interesting one! I'm hoping to learn from your experience with the Dominiques from Cackle. Cackle Hatchery is where I got all of my chicks (multiple breeds) and am now doing some genetics experiments of my own.

Did you find any of the Cackle Dominiques to be heterozygous for either Rose Comb or Extended Black? I crossed Golden Spangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben roosters (2) with Dominique hens (eggs from up to 4 different hens) to create black sex links. They all turned out beautiful, but I'm trying to understand how I got these two very different cockerels. All of my Dominiques have been extremely consistent in appearance, over 2 purebred hatches, and now I'm trying my first hybrid crosses with the original Dominique hens.

Below, the photos on the left are at 16 weeks, the ones on the right are a few weeks younger.

Here is Crazy Train, who had down that looked almost identical to his brothers, but ended up looking more Birchen (ER). Does that mean one of the Dominiques might have been E/EWh, so the Spitz's ER was dominant? Or is this just some sort of normal leakage for a E/ER?
CrazyTrain.jpg IMG_5943.jpg

Here is fancy, who has a sort of thick horned comb, which someone suggested was because maybe one of the Dominque hens was heterozygous for rose comb and this is what it looks like when horn meets single? He hasn't had any of the extra colors develop, so I'm assuming his mom was E/E.
Fancy.jpg barred_roo1.jpg

I got 6 pullets out of the same hatch. 4 of them were almost solid black with very little gold leakage, but 2 had quite a bit of gold...
IMG_5604.jpg

10 weeks_dom-spitz.jpg

Here is what the others looked like at the same age
IMG_5611.jpg

Any insight you can share from your experience would be most appreciated. I love the Dominiques and want to cross them with a few of my other favorite breeds (e.g. Cream Legbar & Welsummer) to give the others rose combs.
 

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