Mix and Matches Breeding Project Thread

[Dona Worry]

Good thinking! Not to mention a rooster with a defect would likely be cheap or free. And old enough to breed.

In an IDEAL world, you could find a pair of brahmas that had the VHs.... then, you could breed them together for a sizable flock of pullets, all big, all with the hocks you want.
Using those big, fluffy hens will theoretically give you bigger offering when crossed with americauna or sultan roosters, then you can breed the resulting half- brama F1 crosses together.

 

[Sneebsey]

@Cyprus, although your ideal is essentially a super-sized Sultan with blue eggs, I would argue that you are better off keeping too much true Sultan blood out of it. I would not breed back to pure Sultan after the first cross, as that can bring size back down.

I like @Dona Worry 's idea of finding Brahma with the vulture hock defect; I'm unsure of how successful you will be in sourcing enough to begin a programme like this, but definitely worth a try to start asking some Brahma breeders if they have any rejects they are wanting to cull.

I would be using Araucana for this, as they are both crested and bearded, with a pea comb and blue eggs, but you do not have them in the US, so that's out. Ameraucana would be suitable, as they have the nice small pea comb and beard, and, again, blue eggs.

As to the crest. Houdan, if breeder quality, can be nicely sized; they were originally bred for meat. They are crested and bearded, and lay a white egg, therefore will not alter the blue.

If you can put vulture-hocked Brahma over each group of hens, then breed the offspring together, you should find that all your desired traits appear in at least a few birds. Then it's just about refining so that everyone has all of the desired genetics and is pure for them. It'll take a while, but larger offspring will come sooner with larger parent stock, and it will keep the hocks in there without breeding back and back to a small bird.

Just be careful not to breed them too close; it can bring down size, as well as reveal other undesirable and sometimes unpleasant characteristics. I would want several groups, similar to a clan breeding system.

 

[Cyprus]

@Cyprus, although your ideal is essentially a super-sized Sultan with blue eggs, I would argue that you are better off keeping too much true Sultan blood out of it. I would not breed back to pure Sultan after the first cross, as that can bring size back down.

I like @Dona Worry 's idea of finding Brahma with the vulture hock defect; I'm unsure of how successful you will be in sourcing enough to begin a programme like this, but definitely worth a try to start asking some Brahma breeders if they have any rejects they are wanting to cull.

I would be using Araucana for this, as they are both crested and bearded, with a pea comb and blue eggs, but you do not have them in the US, so that's out. Ameraucana would be suitable, as they have the nice small pea comb and beard, and, again, blue eggs.

As to the crest. Houdan, if breeder quality, can be nicely sized; they were originally bred for meat. They are crested and bearded, and lay a white egg, therefore will not alter the blue.

If you can put vulture-hocked Brahma over each group of hens, then breed the offspring together, you should find that all your desired traits appear in at least a few birds. Then it's just about refining so that everyone has all of the desired genetics and is pure for them. It'll take a while, but larger offspring will come sooner with larger parent stock, and it will keep the hocks in there without breeding back and back to a small bird.

Just be careful not to breed them too close; it can bring down size, as well as reveal other undesirable and sometimes unpleasant characteristics. I would want several groups, similar to a clan breeding system.

Very good input. Araucanas are available here, but I was not aware that they are crested.

 

[Sneebsey]

Very good input. Araucanas are available here, but I was not aware that they are crested.

Apologies; I could have worded things better. We have a crested, tailed breed here called Araucana; it is similar to your Ameraucana and was bred in a similar manner, from crosses between productive breeds and the blue egg layers from South America. We distinguish it by calling the Araucana known to America the 'Rumpless Araucana'.

I reuse this picture every time I speak about the breed. I really must take more, particularly as only the Black hen shows good colour.

 

[Cyprus]

Apologies; I could have worded things better. We have a crested, tailed breed here called Araucana; it is similar to your Ameraucana and was bred in a similar manner, from crosses between productive breeds and the blue egg layers from South America. We distinguish it by calling the Araucana known to America the 'Rumpless Araucana'.

View attachment 1581066

I reuse this picture every time I speak about the breed. I really must take more, particularly as only the Black hen shows good colour.

Very interesting. I like the looks of that breed. Is it very common in the U.K?

 

[Sneebsey]

I would consider it to be fairly common, yes, though the Lavender and Black are more common than other colours. I know of few breeders locally, but nationally there is a breed club with significant membership.

Sorry to have dangled something unobtainable in front of your nose; I considered that it would be suitable for a project such as yours as it would allow for a two-breed cross, between the vulture-hocked Brahma and the crested, bearded, blue egg laying Araucana. Both have pea combs, too, which would be good as you want small combs. As stated earlier, as they are unavailable to you I would work with Ameraucana and use a different breed to add the crest; something nice and large like a true Houdan (dual purpose type) or Swedish Flower.

 

[Cyprus]

I would consider it to be fairly common, yes, though the Lavender and Black are more common than other colours. I know of few breeders locally, but nationally there is a breed club with significant membership.

Sorry to have dangled something unobtainable in front of your nose; I considered that it would be suitable for a project such as yours as it would allow for a two-breed cross, between the vulture-hocked Brahma and the crested, bearded, blue egg laying Araucana. Both have pea combs, too, which would be good as you want small combs. As stated earlier, as they are unavailable to you I would work with Ameraucana and use a different breed to add the crest; something nice and large like a true Houdan (dual purpose type) or Swedish Flower.

That's alright. I'd probably choose the Houdan because I believe I can get them in white.

 

[Dona Worry]

That's alright. I'd probably choose the Houdan because I believe I can get them in white.

It's a shame brahmas don't come in white...

 

[Dona Worry]

Speaking of white, how does it work? What is dominant white vrs just. . . White?
I ask because I wonder if crossing Nardole over the two brownish hens would result in chicks more like their mother, or more like Nardy boy?

 

[Cyprus]

Speaking of white, how does it work? What is dominant white vrs just. . . White?
I ask because I wonder if crossing Nardole over the two brownish hens would result in chicks more like their mother, or more like Nardy boy?

White is the epistasis of all color, meaning it covers color.
A bird with two copies of dominant white could be hiding any colors but appear white.
Recessive white is the inhibition of all color. A bird with two copies of rec. White will be the purest white because no other color can be present genotypically.
Polish have dominant white. Crossing Nardole with your brown hens will result in mostly white birds with some color leakage.