Mixing Grains for Feed verses Buying Corporate Crumbles...

[Shadrach]

And I have no idea what's available in commercial feeds in Spain!
Almond juice isn't milk!
Many people can't manage lactose after childhood, even if they could earlier. Especially cow's milk.
I did know three children, siblings, your contemporaries, who had anaphylactic reactions to peanuts, and it wasn't pretty.
Wonder bread? You bet! It was awful!
Nobody knew the cause, or had a name, for celiac disease.
I do think that there are more allergies now, and there's data showing that raising children in too 'clean' and environment ain't good.
It's well known that pet rodents, and pet birds, and chickens, can have issues with whole seed diets. Not all of them, but a fair number of individuals will eat the best tasting stuff, and leave the rest, causing malnutrition in those individuals. That's one reason that I prefer to feed a crumble or pelleted feed, with a recent mill date.
Mary

We have the same sort of stuff you get in the USA. I think the only difference is there is still quite a lot of fish based feeds further South. I was very disappointed when the local mill discontinued it due to cost.
I am the only person on this mountain that feeds the chickens commercially produced feed. I get the Micky taken out of me at just about every chicken club meeting we have about this.
Some here make their own feed, often meat or fish based. Others don't officially feed their chickens at all. The game fowl breeders here are extremely fussy about what they feed their fowl with. I'm waiting for a recipe from one guy at the moment. His family have been breeding game fowl for 5 or 6 generations. Unfortunately in the past they were bred to fight. Thankfully it's illegal here now but they still breed.

 

[Folly's place]

My birds have to find their own meat! If I had a very few, maybe adding meat would be nice, but I'm loving the cost of very good commercial chicken feed, compared to what I pay for cat and dog food!!! Chickens are cheap to feed well. Wonderful!
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

I haven't seen even a game bird diet available including fish meal, for many years. Not here.
Mary

 

[Shadrach]

My birds have to find their own meat! If I had a very few, maybe adding meat would be nice, but I'm loving the cost of very good commercial chicken feed, compared to what I pay for cat and dog food!!! Chickens are cheap to feed well. Wonderful!
Mary

How much is a 25Kg bag of feed where you are on average?
I pay 16 Euros ($18) for a 18% protein 1% calcium organic feed here. The organic bit isn't a big deal for me but they don't have the 18% in anything else locally.

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

Hi Mary. Milking Almonds...A Joke.
Allergies of all kinds have been around as long as man. But I can help but notice an Increase in the numbers. In my time the Board of Education mandated that all kids would have a lunch. If unable to bring one from home you were provided a free PBJ and Milk. 35 years later...My Childrens school system was BANNED from serving or even allowing a PBJ on the property. If you sent your kid to school with a PBJ, he/she was sent Home! Pretty tough of lower income families that could not afford Bologna, they could send PBJ.

As a far as Birds picking out the candy and leaving the rest. Studies have been conducted on Grazing Animal feeding on Pasture. In the first days of rotation, Cow's for instance, will roam about picking and choosing their favorite grasses. On subsequent days they can be seen starting in one area and nearly Clearing the ground of everything Green. Chickens are no different. Put out a bowl of Mixed Grain Feed in the morning. Within minutes the Sunflower seed will all be eaten and the birds will wander off. Come back at 4pm and that bowl will be Empty and your Girls will be waiting at the Gate for you to Refill it. Every Kid, will eat the Mashed 'Taters and Chicken Fingers before the Broccoli! But let them sit there long enough and theiron plate will be Clean Too!...JJ

 

[gtaus]

There is a lot of great info out there and it all doesn't have to come from folks with a bunch of Letters after their name.

Well said. The older I get, the more I appreciate the advice from people with real world experience in their subject matter. They are usually the kind that will tell you what worked for them, and what did not. And they usually don't pass judgement on others who want to try something different for themselves. There is great value in that.

I respect the value of a professional degree, but sometimes I think studies done by Ph.D's are paid for by a company to support their sales or interests. Their main interest is in supporting the company that writes their paycheck. How else do you explain all those scientists working for the tobacco companies telling us cigarette smoking was harmless?

Do you know anything about the nutritional absorption rates of whole grains versus commercial crumble versus fermented or fodder? I once read an article on the benefits of growing fodder, and they claimed something like 80% of whole grains pass through a chicken undigested, whereas about 70% of fodder is digested by the chicken. I can't remember the exact percentages, but it was astonishing. Along those lines, I seem to have read somewhere that commercial crumbles are broken down and absorbed by the chicken much better than mixed whole grains. If this is the case, I would think you would have to factor in the absorption rate of the feeds in a true comparison. Just a thought.

 

[Shadrach]

Well said. The older I get, the more I appreciate the advice from people with real world experience in their subject matter. They are usually the kind that will tell you what worked for them, and what did not. And they usually don't pass judgement on others who want to try something different for themselves. There is great value in that.

I respect the value of a professional degree, but sometimes I think studies done by Ph.D's are paid for by a company to support their sales or interests. Their main interest is in supporting the company that writes their paycheck. How else do you explain all those scientists working for the tobacco companies telling us cigarette smoking was harmless?

Do you know anything about the nutritional absorption rates of whole grains versus commercial crumble versus fermented or fodder? I once read an article on the benefits of growing fodder, and they claimed something like 80% of whole grains pass through a chicken undigested, whereas about 70% of fodder is digested by the chicken. I can't remember the exact percentages, but it was astonishing. Along those lines, I seem to have read somewhere that commercial crumbles are broken down and absorbed by the chicken much better than mixed whole grains. If this is the case, I would think you would have to factor in the absorption rate of the feeds in a true comparison. Just a thought.

There is an element of truth in this but there is also a shed load of shite written on this topic and just about any other. While academia has it's faults a bit of research regarding who funded the research can go a long way. You need a certain level of knowledge to seperate the wheat from the chaff as the saying goes and what Auntie so and so fed her chickens before you or I were born possibly isn't the best starting point.
The 'It worked for me' type of advice is fine if you can verify that it did actually work and know the circumstances in which it worked. Take yer man above with his 'chcikens will pick out the best stuff and come back later for the rest'. That certainly wouldn't and hasn't worked here. They pick out the best stuff and go and eat other stuff elsewhere leaving the rest for the rats, mice dogs, goats and sheep.

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

There is an element of truth in this but there is also a shed load of shite written on this topic and just about any other. While academia has it's faults a bit of research regarding who funded the research can go a long way. You need a certain level of knowledge to seperate the wheat from the chaff as the saying goes and what Auntie so and so fed her chickens before you or I were born possibly isn't the best starting point.
The 'It worked for me' type of advice is fine if you can verify that it did actually work and know the circumstances in which it worked. Take yer man above with his 'chcikens will pick out the best stuff and come back later for the rest'. That certainly wouldn't and hasn't worked here. They pick out the best stuff and go and eat other stuff elsewhere leaving the rest for the rats, mice dogs, goats and sheep.

OK...I guess I should have been more specific and detailed.
The studies on cows Grazing and the observation of Chickens clearing the bowl is based Cow Mob feeding by Joel Salatin. His property is sectioned off in small pasture paddocks, the exact size escapes me. Anyway, he leads a large group of cattle into the Paddock. They eat the Candy, then are left there until they have eaten the rest, not bare but we'll grazed. The cattle are then moved to the next paddock and so on. In Joel's system his Layers are released on the first paddock, three days later. 3 days because that is the time needed for Fly's and other insects to invade the Cow Patties and supply copious numbers of Maggots and Beetles. Plus, cows don't eat the grass around their manure but chickens ain't that fussy. Quite the Buffet really! The Chickens scatter the manure, in the search for insects. What better way to spread Fertilizer than with Chicken Power!
The Chickens studied were offered the Mixed Grain in their Enclosed Run. They ate the goodies but cleaned their bowl because, That was the Only Food Available. There was no going off to Forage in the grass for bugs and Clover. And YES, the Grain Mix was a Balanced Diet providing all essential nutrients from grain and legumes.

I'm not suggesting just feeding a Bowl of Scratch Grains, Take It or Leave It.
My Plan, is Dry Mixed Grains and Fertrell's, mixed with their current Crumble feed, transitioning to Fermented Feed and adding Fodder in the Winter months. I will be SPARINGLY offering other treats like Soldier Fly Larvae, left over People Food, (The Dogs are not Thrilled with having to Share).
There will be several hours of Free Range time daily or weather permitting.
I have yet to find any info that suggests there are any Malnutrition issues with my plan.
If anyone has info that contradicts this, other than I'm not as Smart as a Purina Nutritionist with a PhD, please tell me. I don't want to hurt my Chickens...JJ

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

50 pounds Non-GMO Corn,
50 pounds Organic Wheat,
50 pounds Organic Oats,
5 pounds BOSS,
5 pounds Organic Field Peas,
10 pounds Non-GMO Roasted Soy,
5 pounds Fertrell's Nutri-Balancer

So some additional research shows, that while, at one time, Oats were highly regarded as the perfect chicken feed and could be fed in unlimited quantities. Newer Reseach indicates that Whole Oats should be limited to 15% of the ration. In the recipe above Oats make up about 30% of the mix. I looked at other suitable Grains and find Milo has a similar protein percentage and can be substituted for Oats...JJ
Chicken feed mix 2.0.
50 pounds Non-GMO Corn,
50 pounds Organic Wheat,
25 pounds Organic Oats
25 pounds Organic Milo
5 pounds BOSS,
5 pounds Organic Field Peas,
10 pounds Non-GMO Roasted Soy,
5 pounds Fertrell's Nutri-Balancer

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

The fallacy of the original premise is that the Greatest Generation fed themselves with chickens when the truth is that chicken was a luxury meat reserved for special occasions like Sunday Lunch after church. It was after World War 2 that the white meat broiler began to become more readily available widely.