MJ's little flock

[rjohns39]

Good evening folks

 

[Grammy60]

Good morning/evening MJ and everyone

 

[BY Bob]

I can respond to this too because if it wasn't compulosary I wouldn't vote. I think they're all a bunch of crooks & we definitly shouldn't be paying them to perform a public service. That being said, when a section of your people don't, aren't, can't vote it is non~representative government. That's been women & indigenious peoples usually but also the handicapped. Secondly this is one thing the education system is supposed to address. In my case my school actually did. Most people are aware of the issues & are smart voters here. How do I know? This election there was a massive swing away from the 2 major parties & we are looking @ representation from a 3rd party & lots of independents. People voted for the issues that mattered most to them & not along party lines. Thirdly the ballot slips are as simple as they can make them so it's not that hard for most people to vote as they see fit and lastly, if you really object, you donkey vote. Or you can abstain & pay the fine. It is a very fair system & no~one can complain along the lines of I didn't get a say because everyone does get a say, one way or another.

Need to add, the booth workers are paid. Quite well by all accounts. I've known a few people do it for the extra cash.

As always, I learn things when I fuss like that. Let me say that the ideal state you are describing is nothing like what my experience is and has been. I would guess it is not perfect everywhere there as well. However I will accept your description as how your system works.

Now for my diatribe......I apologize in advance and will even put it in a spoiler for those who are not interested.


Diatribe Tax

 

[BY Bob]

It's far more important that more voices are heard than that a few voices opt out and pay a small fine.

Also, democracy and freedom are not the same thing.

There's a lot of freedom in a state of nature. There's a lot of democracy in wide franchise.

The people on the electoral roll know their nation wants ro hear from them.

The pollies are obligated to direct their policies and electioneering at everyone.

Et;a: Bob would know what a state of nature is but in case anyone is wondering, here's a link.

I'm really pleased that your system of government works so well for you. I really am.

 

[BY Bob]

I was surprised when you decided to be adversarial on the topic, especially when you don't have any first hand experience of the compulsory education system in Australia nor of its democratic processes.

I'm sorry I ever responded in any way. I never meant to offend anyone or derail MJs thread in any way. If I did please forgive me and whatever you do, don't read my diatribe which I just posted as I'm likely to offend you more.

I'm considering taking it down. It is how I feel. If you think less of me because of it I suppose I will have to live with it unless I do take it down.

 

[BY Bob]

Oh! I forgot to mention that I showed Dr Mark Peggy's new skill of standing on my hands. I fully expected her to prove me a liar, but she didn't!

Way to go Peggy!

 

[Ribh]

As always, I learn things when I fuss like that. Let me say that the ideal state you are describing is nothing like what my experience is and has been. I would guess it is not perfect everywhere there as well. However I will accept your description as how your system works.

Now for my diatribe......I apologize in advance and will even put it in a spoiler for those who are not interested.

Spoiler: Voting Diatribe

I have been asked too many times what a judge of common pleas or constable does to believe that our education system works.

"What does voting to retain mean?"

"This amendment to the state constitution will do what?"

You have clearly not educated yourself on what's happening if you show up and ask me what these mean.

Bear in mind these are people who cared enough to show up and vote without being gone if they don't.

Our voter turnout varies from 80% on a presidential election to 25% in an off-year primary. Off-year primaries are when the constables and judges are running. Therefor the most dedicated voters we have are asking these questions. You say we should add in 75% more people who have no idea what they are doing or voting for by force. How is that going to get me better government?

I'd rather have just the people who know what they are doing vote even if it's 5%. Or country is a mess because people don't know what they are doing when they vote. They aren't educated and vote as such. I cannot for the life of me see how more uneducated people voting is going to help.

Now don't even get me started on how the politicians rig the system to their advantage and use confusing language on ballots on purpose. Doing all they can to make it extremely difficult for anyone to run against them once they are elected. Then there are the news outlets (all of them) which slant coverage to the outcome they desire. Even corporations are fudging information to suit their own agendas.
now.

I am someone who believed in our system of government so deeply that I felt it my duty to make certain anyone who wanted to vote could exercise their right. Based on what they paid me to staff and run the polls it was a volunteer position.

Never was I more relieved than when the election results were certified last November and u was done. I organized a smooth hand off to my successor and I am no longer responsible. Right my successor, poor man, is going through a highly contested recount. I wish him nothing but the best but my reputation is intact and will not suffer the smears and slanders that are headed his way when one side is unhappy with the final result.

Let me add, for the first time in my life I did NOT vote this time. It was liberating. I was not fined. Instead my vote was not voting. I could have gone to the polls and and submitted a blank ballot but I saved them the trouble of processing me and then trying to figure out how to count my blank ballot during the recount. I am sure some shadow would have been considered a vote by one side or the other or heaven forbid someone would have marked a box for me.

Diatribe Tax
View attachment 3118971

Somewhere further down the track I mention America is a republic, not a democracy [though democratic republic & constitutional democratic republic are terms I see get thrown around a lot too]. Your rant actually demonstrates this beautifully. It is a far more complicated system because you, the people, are responsible for so much of it. Here we're not. We elect the government & they are responsible. What is interesting about this election is they who govern will not get things all their own way along party lines because so many independents & 3rd partyers were elected & in order to govern the government is going to have to make concessions to them or nothing will get done. This is a far more representative *the will of the people* government than we've seen in some time.

 

[LozzyR]

I'm sorry I ever responded in any way. I never meant to offend anyone or derail MJs thread in any way. If I did please forgive me and whatever you do, don't read my diatribe which I just posted as I'm likely to offend you more.

I'm considering taking it down. It is how I feel. If you think less of me because of it I suppose I will have to live with it unless I do take it down.

I don’t think your diatribe was offensive; to me it sounded like frustration at how convoluted your voting system is. It is very different to ours and I can understand how disillusioned you might feel.

Have a chicken or two:

 

[MaryJanet]

I'm sorry I ever responded in any way. I never meant to offend anyone or derail MJs thread in any way. If I did please forgive me and whatever you do, don't read my diatribe which I just posted as I'm likely to offend you more.

I'm considering taking it down. It is how I feel. If you think less of me because of it I suppose I will have to live with it unless I do take it down.

I thought it was a delightful, spirited and surprising discussion that ended up with everyone comprehending the distance between US and Australian electoral processes.

 

[MaryJanet]

I'm really pleased that your system of government works so well for you. I really am.

It works for vast majority of Australians and I accept your view that it wouldn't work in the US.