MM Sick Chicks Official Diagnosis In...

[silkhope]

Lord this is confusing... please, can someone explain this to me step by step? I can't understand why there isn't a straight answer in all of this (or I missed it somewhere) I've been reading and reading and reading and get different answers everywhere.

I gave DH the order to put one down last night that has been sick and was very apparently suffering, flopping all around the brooder, splayed legs, barely raising it's head. There is another and it seems to be recovering, standing for much longer periods, and of course is still separated. I have two other McMurray chicks left and they are in the same brooder as my own hatched chicks. None of those chicks, including the two McMurray chicks, have shown symptoms throughout all of this.

Seeing as all of my chicks were exposed, because they were all in the same brooder before symptoms occurred, I am struggling with putting all of my chicks down and need some insight. Some are silkies and mille fleurs that I have hatched, and yes, I will want to breed them.

* I have chicks that are not showing symptoms but have been exposed. Do these chicks carry natural immunity or will they become immune because they have been exposed but did not get "sick"?

* If they do not carry natural immunity or will not develop immunity by being exposed, can I/should I get them vaccinated at 10 weeks old? Will this make a difference?

* The chick that is recovering, will she always carry this or will she become immune and stop spreading it and if she does stop spreading it, when can I put her back in with other chicks? Can she be vaccinated when recovered or is there a need? Or is there no use for her, and she will always pass this on to any eggs that she lays?

* No one has mentioned cockerels, only pullets/hens passing it thru the egg. What happens if a cockerel is infected/sick or even just exposed? Does he have any impact on the egg/offspring?

* Did I mention that I'm losing my mind? (You don't have to answer that)

Thanks for any insight to what I hope are not stupid questions.

 

[ruth]

Hi Silkhope - based on every article I have read, and I've quoted 3 - the chicks that survive will be immune and pass that immunity onto their chicks through the egg. Same with adults that are immunized - the immunity passes through to egg.

The problem, as I understand it, is that this is solely a baby chick (less than 4 week old) illness. It doesn't affect adult chicks or chicks older than 6 weeks because of natural immunities and antibodies that fight it. The only sign of an adult hen who has it is decreased egg production and that only lasts for the approx. 11 day incubation period. However, a hen who is "sick" will have no outward signs but will pass it through the egg onto her chick - thus chicks are hatched who are "sick". Sick chicks will either die or get better. Those that get better may live healthy lives or may develop cataracts later in life or may "prove to be unthrifty". However, in my opinion, if I had sick chicks, I would do everything I could to help them get well - feed them vitamins, scrambled egg - and hope/pray for the best after that. I'm not raising show birds and have no concern for whether or not they end up being the best or biggest bird on my farm.

Again, solely my opinon, based on hours and hours of research and papers that I've read. And yes, while the "Industry" standard practice is to cull the sick chicks that's so that they can get on with their business of raising tens of thousands of chicks and don't want it to spread. But if you only have a small brooder box of chicks there is no real reason to cull at this point (in my opinion). Of course, if state agencies tell you that you must cull that is a different story but I don't think anyone's been told that by an official government organization yet.

 

[carousel]

I'm hoping on the same.

we have now put all our mcmurray chicks at one house. (the other house 1/2 the order was staying at)
our hope had been to split up the bunch into their homes prior to 10 weeks! but now it looks like we will need to hang on a bit longer.
hoping the 21 can get along in an area 6x10? only 60sf

My Ideal chicks will be here the end of the week to a scrubed down clean house.

CS

 

[zchickens]

I wanted to repost this link, as I think that some of what is in here to be of good use:

http://www.lahinternational.com/pdf/General/AE_LAHI.pdf


As I have seen in other posts ....yes, the maternal antibodies only last for "four to six weeks. This is ample time for the bird to become immune competent" - from the link above. This means that this is to give enough time for the chick to establish their own antibodies. Protection doesn't just disappear after the maternal antibodies die. Chicks will have formed their own antibodies to it from exposure to the virus in the chick's gut (see below) over the 4-6 week period.

The AE virus starts out in the gut of the chicken and moves to the brain and nervous system. Even if the chicken has antibodies (whether it is their own or maternal), it does not stop the virus from entering the gut. However, the antibodies do stop it from spreading and causing any damage to the brain or nervous system. Chicks of immunized parents do get virus passed to them, the difference is that the maternal antibodies are also passed to fight the virus and give the chick time to develop its own antibodies, so the virus is just contained to the gut of the chicken. Therefore, in essence, there is no difference in exposure to the virus whether it is from immunization or from exposure from other chicks (as both are exposed).

I am fortunate, in this case, that I work for a company with an immunology department. I discussed this with one of our head scientists, and he said that the antibodies the chicks have (whether they were produced from vaccine or exposure) are the same. If anything, he said that chicks exposed that showed no symptoms would be better, as their immune system was able to fight it off on its own (demonstrates that it is a hardy bird with a good immune system). He said that yes, if the bird was to become immune comprimized, (sick, diseased, or serverly injured) that it could respread the virus.

Therefore, the risk in keeping these chicks is the same, whether you keep chicks that have been exposed and survive or were immunized or came from hen who was immunized. There is no difference.

Z

 

[carousel]

THANK YOU
I missed this link!
It makes perfect sense, easy to understand, I'm printing, framing LOL and bookmarking.
CS

 

[farm_mom]

Thank You, Thank you, Thank you!!

 

[MNKris]

Another important thing to remember is that MOST birds have been exposed to this virus, whether you know it or not. Most birds purchased from hatcheries have been exposed via vaccine from their mother. Just because you haven't had an outbreak on your property, definitely doesn't mean you haven't been exposed, and being exposed isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on the age of the chicken.

 

[ruth]

Thank you all for the good, positive, calming and informative posts. One of the articles I read said that most of us are eating eggs that contain the virus because in the commercial industry the non-fertile egg laying hens aren't always vaccinated because they aren't trying to get chicks from the eggs.

Everything I've read says this is a common virus that has been around since the dawn of time and always will be - kind of like the common cold.

 

[TheFunnyFarm]

A great big THANK YOU to everyone for all the great info . My chicks are getting stronger everday.(slow and steady won the race). And I was one who did not want to put them all down.I tried everything I had read here and elseware,but mostly here .I think it got to the point were the poor things would look at each other and say "Oh no, here comes that crazy lady again"

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chicks147]

Chickie has a lump on her throat what can I do,she is weak,& not walking around