molting/protein?

[LeslieDJoyce]

"Get Locally Laid"

So naughty!

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Yah...they got a catchy little label there.

They're actually in a contest for a Superbowl commercial and are leading in the polls of the contest. It would be fun to see their commercial superbowl Sunday.

Here's a pdf I found on crude protein in grass, clover, alfalfa (since this is something we are looking at this point in time on this thread) from a University of Kentucky Ag Extension site
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf

and yep...I realize it is for horses.

They just don't research stuff for chickens.. as other posters have said earlier in on this thread. But gives you an idea... Interestingly they say that alfalfa alone offers 16-18% protein but if you pasture out in a good leafy pasture you're better off at 18%-20%. I don't know for sure what the birds are going to take from all of that...but I see them plucking white clover, dandelion, elephant ear (which is more cruciferous) and the grasses too....but mostly that higher protein clover. I think it gets "sweeter" in the fall again too. They're really grabbing it in the spring (egg laying time) and again in the fall (molt time).

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Brilliant! A question you probably can't answer but can horses eat alfalfa as well? Just thought I might as well buy it in bulk as it is coming from the bottom end of England (Cornwall) and I live in the North West (Near Manchester)

Horses can have alfalfa...but if it's a dramatic switch from what you are already feeding them I would integrate it real gradual. I believe there can be issues with collick when their food is changed up on them different grass foods, etc.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Yah...they got a catchy little label there.

They're actually in a contest for a Superbowl commercial and are leading in the polls of the contest. It would be fun to see their commercial superbowl Sunday.

Here's a pdf I found on crude protein in grass, clover, alfalfa (since this is something we are looking at this point in time on this thread) from a University of Kentucky Ag Extension site
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf

and yep...I realize it is for horses.

They just don't research stuff for chickens.. as other posters have said earlier in on this thread. But gives you an idea... Interestingly they say that alfalfa alone offers 16-18% protein but if you pasture out in a good leafy pasture you're better off at 18%-20%. I don't know for sure what the birds are going to take from all of that...but I see them plucking white clover, dandelion, elephant ear (which is more cruciferous) and the grasses too....but mostly that higher protein clover. I think it gets "sweeter" in the fall again too. They're really grabbing it in the spring (egg laying time) and again in the fall (molt time).

There are human "nutritionists" who advocate eating alfalfa due to the high mineral content. The mineral content probably fluctuates a lot depending on the soil. But I gather growing alfalfa helps improve soil quality.

There are lots of articles on improving alfalfa digestibility for ruminants, so I can't imagine other animals have a better time digesting it. Enzymes help? Here is an example of a study ... http://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(62)89510-1/abstract

GMO alfalfa has recently been approved here in the USA ... an added consideration.

BUT ... YAY ... here is an article which discusses using alfalfa for ... get this ... molting diet!* So topical!

http://www.extension.org/pages/65503/feeding-alfalfa-to-poultry#.UoLrkCjBoTM

I know I've seen plenty of "recipes" for mixing poultry feeds which include alfalfa meal or pellets.

My hens love having some nice quality hay in their nesting boxes. I haven't tried alfalfa as it is more spendy than the stuff I got for free from friends.

* A molt diet is a high-fiber, low protein diet used in to INDUCE molt in an industrial farm.

 

[centrarchid]

This is not just about protein levels, especially when plant sources of protein requirements are considered. It all also about amino acids, especially the essential amino acids. The profile / ratios of those essential amino acids need to approximate the profile / ratios of the chicken's requirements which is pretty similar to the chickens whole-body amino acid profile. The farther the diets amino acid profile, especially that which is actually available for absorption, from the ideal, the more protein the bird must consume to meet it needs. Green parts of alfalfa are a bit off the mark with respect to amino acids, especially when compared to animal sources and even soybeans.

 

[Pathfinders]

Brilliant! A question you probably can't answer but can horses eat alfalfa as well? Just thought I might as well buy it in bulk as it is coming from the bottom end of England (Cornwall) and I live in the North West (Near Manchester)

Horses *can* eat alfalfa, but the protein content in it makes it a pretty specialized feed, generally given to those horses who have a great deal of work to do, sport horses and so on.

For the average backyard horse, alfalfa is not the best choice. I am not familiar with grasses available in the UK, but here in KY we feed a mixture of brome/fescue/clover, just regular "grass hay", using alfalfa for dairy goats in milk or the occasional flake for the chickens.

 

[TwoCrows]

Quote: X2

Horses can eat alfalfa hay, and they love it. Actually they love it too much and will over eat on it. And as stated above, will colic on it if they eat too much alfalfa. Never feed horses fresh cut, wet alfalfa and never feed them "first cutting". It has way too much protein and will make them sick. However first cutting alfalfa is basically a spring thing and you don't have to worry about it this time of year.

We used to feed our horses alfalfa only once or twice a week and they only got a very small flake of it between all of them. Just a treat.

 

[Percheron chick]

They are getting protein in their grasses too. (Consider grass fed beef cattle) Now you probably won't speed a hen through molting on grass alone. but it's in there. And among the grass blades as you know is the animal protein (insects, frogs) to compliment the grass. Free ranging is set up for a complete diet for your chicken, in my opinion. As fall wears on to winter, I notice my birds are ranging farther and farther from my yard to find what they need. Sort of amazing if you look at it from afar...but then I get nervous of course and more neighborly if you will and scuttle them back home with enticing offerings. LOL.

Just this fall with molt and daylight hours shortening-egg supply not keeping to my needs I bought some Amish eggs from my grocery store. This guy has his hens raised on hay, outside birds to some degree, but I can tell they are being fed mostly bagged feed. The yolks are much paler than my grass fed free ranging girls. Grass = more betacarotene in the egg and perhaps the more delicious flavor.

Yah...they got a catchy little label there.

They're actually in a contest for a Superbowl commercial and are leading in the polls of the contest. It would be fun to see their commercial superbowl Sunday.

Here's a pdf I found on crude protein in grass, clover, alfalfa (since this is something we are looking at this point in time on this thread) from a University of Kentucky Ag Extension site
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf

and yep...I realize it is for horses.

They just don't research stuff for chickens.. as other posters have said earlier in on this thread. But gives you an idea... Interestingly they say that alfalfa alone offers 16-18% protein but if you pasture out in a good leafy pasture you're better off at 18%-20%. I don't know for sure what the birds are going to take from all of that...but I see them plucking white clover, dandelion, elephant ear (which is more cruciferous) and the grasses too....but mostly that higher protein clover. I think it gets "sweeter" in the fall again too. They're really grabbing it in the spring (egg laying time) and again in the fall (molt time).

This data is misleading because it's a dry matter value. All the water has been removed from the sample so of course the nutrient values will increase. Alfalfa pasture is only around 5% protein as it is about 80% water depending upon the time of year and the growth stage. Your protein content will also fluctuate depending upon the maturity of the forage. You want the alfalfa to be immature, about one foot tall, no spindly tall stalks and no blooms for it to be at it's highest nutritional value.

To go back to one of your previous posts, grass pastures are extremely low in protein as well. Less than 3% for a green growing patch of grass. Again, it's mostly water. If the grass is dormant, the value will increase slightly as the water content dries up. Grass hay (10% moisture on average) will come in 8-10% protein and that has been heavily feritilized with Nitrogen. Grass and alfalfa are both great sources of beta carotene. Once dried to the hay stage, alfalfa will have a better value and does make a great winter time treat to help keep your yolks bright orange. Buy a small bale and toss them flake (small section that "flakes" off the bake) as they clean it up. It will also help satisfy that scratch and peck they all need. If you put it in your nesting boxes, they will toss it all out looking for crumbs to eat, so don't.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Understood and thanks for clarifying the information for those of us that don't have a huge ag background.

I think it's important to know that my posts were just replies to where the thread was leading and for all intensive purposes I just wanted people to know that there is bits of protein in grasses and clovers as well that don't already know that. I do and always supplement my birds who are free ranging on grasses, clovers, etc with some left over meat, BOSS, and higher protein treats in addition to their formulated pellets, etc.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

If you put [alfalfa hay] in your nesting boxes, they will toss it all out looking for crumbs to eat, so don't.

Good point! I'm inspired to do a comparative "clinical trial" of various hays for nesting boxes. I like it when it smells nice, is a pretty green color, and the hens can fuss over it some ... but for that the strands can't be too long or too short. The stuff I have now is too long (some random hay that was treated more like a cover crop here than "real" hay), and I'm too lazy to cut it up. The hens seem a little "down" about it, though they have figured out to be the first to the box when I refresh so they can steal the "flowers" off the ends.

I don't like shavings in the nesting boxes because the hens are determined to fling those around with enthusiasm and I get more broken eggs. They seem to "respect" the nesting features of hay.