Month long health / poop concerns in chicken.

[Wyorp Rock]

@Wyorp Rock
I find it really hard to believe that there are not labs in the USA that do this service. The one I mentioned has done equine worm egg counts for many years but just started offering the poultry service in the last few years. It surely has to be a good business opportunity as more and more people are keeping chickens as "pets with benefits" and are interested in maintaining their health and longevity rather than purely production, but also not wanting to pump unnecessary chemicals into their birds or the environment.... or waste eggs due to withdrawal periods. It seems odd that no one in the US has cottoned on to this concept.... you must have labs that do equine samples across the pond. It is certainly easier than pestering vets to find one that will check a chicken sample without an appointment and no doubt, a good bit cheaper.
By the way, many congrats on your Educator Badge..... I only just noticed it.... very well deserved, I have to say.

It's a puzzle for sure I have seen where you can order some kits online through places like Amazon. Most states have a state veterinarian diagnostic lab that probably would perform the tests. Some states are very expensive, while others are not. For example here in NC we have 4 lab locations - prices seem reasonable - necropsy is around $15 for up to 8birds and fecal float is around $5. I have not used their services (yet). Now local vets here in my city a fecal float for chicken is impossible - I have 15 vet clinics right here with an average of 3vets per clinic - so 45vets and no one will see a chicken at all - I called around just for curiosity - I got laughed at, hung up on and just some were NO!!!!
Now, other states I can't say what services are provided - I have seen necropsy pricing well over $250 which is just plain out of line - a lot of states only have 1lab as well.

I agree, it could be profitable for someone - chickens are popular right now, so hopefully it will start a trend for vets to be more accommodating and open their doors. But, for a lot of people, testing and/or seeing a vet is just too much $$$.

 

[Kiki]

It's a puzzle for sure I have seen where you can order some kits online through places like Amazon. Most states have a state veterinarian diagnostic lab that probably would perform the tests. Some states are very expensive, while others are not. For example here in NC we have 4 lab locations - prices seem reasonable - necropsy is around $15 for up to 8birds and fecal float is around $5. I have not used their services (yet). Now local vets here in my city a fecal float for chicken is impossible - I have 15 vet clinics right here with an average of 3vets per clinic - so 45vets and no one will see a chicken at all - I called around just for curiosity - I got laughed at, hung up on and just some were NO!!!!
Now, other states I can't say what services are provided - I have seen necropsy pricing well over $250 which is just plain out of line - a lot of states only have 1lab as well.

I agree, it could be profitable for someone - chickens are popular right now, so hopefully it will start a trend for vets to be more accommodating and open their doors. But, for a lot of people, testing and/or seeing a vet is just too much $$$.

I did something very similar with calling around different vet's in my local area.
Most of the vets that did NOT see chickens as patients were still willing to test the poop if I brought it in.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I did something very similar with calling around different vet's in my local area.
Most of the vets that did NOT see chickens as patients were still willing to test the poop if I brought it in.

Yep, even with my own vet, they refused even a sample. When I called the clinics in my area, I specifically asked about fecal testing - it was a resounding NO You would think that would be something they could all do easily. Even with my vet, they want to see the dog along with the sample, so vet visit is around $75 and fecal is $50 so a "basic" visit is going to cost at least $125 plus any add ons they can get put in there.

 

[Kiki]

I think I have seen Kathy post something once about "mailing in" poop herein the US..let me see if I can fid it.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

You can get these kits off amazon -
https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rab...hi-20&linkId=7e573db2b13eef989e9e8c8cfa911b1d

 

[biophiliac]

Maybe this would be helpful to OP
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/birds-abnormal-droppings

 

[rebrascora]

Yes that looks similar to the service Westgate Labs provide here, so maybe it just needs better promotion/advertising in the US.
I think more and more people are doing worm counts on their horses here in the UK because of the issues with resistance and damaging the dung beetle populations and many people that have horses also have hens, so the business probably expanded to cater to that market. I don't know if Westgate also does other animals' faecal testing but they primarily started with horses, I believe.

 

[mvdct]

Hi all,

Thanks for the posts, thoughts and further questions. All really helpful and appreciated. Let me give answers, as best I can. Further thoughts and comment most welcome.


@biophiliac
> Why did the vet say there was concern for her kidneys?
I'm not sure. I think maybe because there was excess liquid in her poop (“polyuria” - according to the link you posted) - so maybe a kidney issue?

> Does she have any swelling or fluid in her abdomen?
Not that we can tell. We've rechecked all three this evening. She seems comparable to the other two.

> How does her body condition seem- does she have some flesh around her keel bone or is it very prominent?
Again, she seems about the same as the other three. Weighing them, she weighs 3.0kg, and the other two 2.9kg and 2.6kg.


@KikisGirls
> Did the vet check for worms?
Let me check, how would this have been done? Taking a poop sample and then doing a faecal float (Like Wyorp Rock asks below)? If so, no. The last time we had an ill chicken, we took in some poop and the vet grew samples from it. It cost £50 and wasn't offered this time.


@Wyorp Rock
> Did your vet perform a fecal float to rule out worms and possibly Coccidiosis overload.
No (see answer to @KikisGirls ).

> Also, did you do any x-rays?
No. We got the sense from the vet, that he felt things like that were more expensive than the value of the chicken (of course, this doesn't necessarily reflect the value of the chicken to us!)

> do you feel any swelling/bloat or feeling of fluid in the abdomen?
Not obviously. Checking them this evening - the only thing that felt different was that her crop felt like it has more liquid in it, when compared to the crops of the other two. Is that potentially a problem?

> the vet was concerned over her kidneys - did he say why? Does she have any swelling of the feet?
No swelling feet. Not sure on the kidneys (see answer to @biophiliac ).

> When she did lay eggs - were they normal hard shelled eggs or did she have troubles?
Normal eggs. She did always spend the longest of the three in the nest box - but her eggs were normal.

> ...keep her treats to around 5% of her daily intake.
They get to free range much of the day. They have layers pellets. We given them some oats and yoghurt in the morning, and a bit of grain in the evening. Would you say the oats and yoghurt and grain count as treats? Thanks.


@rebrascora
Thanks for the tip on Westagte Labs. Looks like getting a faecal float seems like a good idea. We last treated them with flubenvet in July. But it could still be worms, right? (I'm also starting to wonder if there are other things we can naturally feed them to keep worms under control. any thoughts?)

We agree. We worry that whatever it is, is probably not good. But oddly apart from the not laying - she can often seem quite normal.

Food supplement wise, we give them a scoop of "Digesti-Health" in their oats and yoghurt in the morning
http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/shop/view/index.aspx/product/digesti-health-2kg-91

And a couple of days ago gave them a dose of Beryls.
http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/shop/view/index.aspx/product/beryls-6-bird-sachet--74

Really interested to hear about the fermenting food idea. Where would you get the mother / starter from?

> Is there any swelling between the legs and or below the vent...
No.

> Does her keel bone feel sharp under the skin or reasonably well covered.....
> again check your other hens to get a sense of what is normal.
Pretty similar to the other hens, they all feel little bit sharp, but they are only one year old and free range a lot (and the other two seem in fine health)


@KikisGirls , @Wyorp Rock @rebrascora
Totally agree. Its been interesting to see how chickens are regarding by vets. And what is / isn't offered for them.


Again, thanks all for your help. And thanks in advance for any further comments.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi again

Yes the oats and yoghurt and grains count as treats and the problem with them is that they dilute the protein and calcium content of their daily ration. A hen will only eat so much a day. Like us they prefer treats and will eat them in preference to proper food. The protein in their layer pellets will probably be 16% and oats grains and even yoghurt contain less than 16%, but more carbohydrates which can make them fat and cause digestive, reproductive and visceral health problems. I appreciate you saying that they are actually feeling quite lean in the breast bone area, but you are feeling for muscle there.... muscle is maintained by protein....so if protein levels are not high enough, muscle mass can reduce. Fat is deposited in different areas like the abdomen and around the internal organs. I have seen this in hens that I have butchered for my neighbour that were fed too much mixed corn and stopped laying, so you do need to be careful with diet and treats.
We all like to spoil our hens and give them things they obviously love, but you have to be very disciplined about it. Chickens have been selectively bred to be very productive compared to their natural relatives but they are less active and layer feed has been specially formulated to give them all they need to be productive without the extra calories that they aren't able to burn off like wild birds that fly and range all day and have to work hard to forage for every morsel of food they eat. I hope that makes sense.

As regards Apple Cider Vinegar with "the mother", I buy mine online by the gallon but I have a good sized flock and I sometimes give my horses some too and occasionally I will take some myself in a glass of water. You can certainly get it in smaller quantities and a little goes a long way. I tend to put a dash in my gallon plastic water stations (don't use it if you have metal as it will corrode it)
Another option is to soak your mixed grains in water for a few days and then give it a stir and pour some of that liquid into the bucket with your layer pellets and water to start the fermentation. The natural yeasts from the grains will do the job just as well. The chickens will enjoy the soaked grains as much if not more than when they are hard..... just keep the quantity you give them very low. The soaked grains swell to nearly twice their size so if you give them the same volume of soaked grains as you gave them dry, you will more or less have halved the amount they are getting and you are giving them good bacteria with it and making it more easily digestible.

I hope that makes sense. Obviously, you are already giving them the Beryl's probiotic and the other product, so probably use those up and then try fermenting after that although if you continue to feed (a little) mixed corn, I would recommend soaking that anyway. I soak enough for about a week and just use a small sieve to scoop some out of the pot each day.

 

[DwayneNLiz]

You said her crop had more liquid in it- this could show she is drinking more than the others which again leads to kidneys
But again the fecal float could help rule out more easily treatable things like coccidosis and worms, it will also tell you which worms if there are some present

Good luck!!