Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I'm letting the numbers dwindle too. I know it's not feasible for many including me. Broodies? My silkie hen would sit on air about 3/4 of the year. Made me laugh. I finally moved her nest to an storage tub on it's side because I didn't want her sitting in her coop all day long.

 

[Michael Apple]

Sounds like an awesome rooster!

The problem with keeping ages separate is you can't have broody raised chicks, which is all I do now. And they free range with the babies because I don't have a separate pen/coop area for a broody other than a 3x5 cage inside the Orp coop. If they get out of that, they walk outside and down the wide ramp and are on range. So the babies roam the same grounds as all other free ranging adults anyway.

I know what you mean. If I want to use the grow off pen as a breeding pen, I can if I'm not raising chicks. The last time I let a hen brood her own chicks was with white Wyandotte bantams. Most were cockerels, so I'd just prefer to order chicks, or perhaps incubate some eggs from a preferred breeding. I've been buying chicks for so long, it has become convenient, except when you get a batch of unhealthy chicks.

 

[ChicKat]

Was in TSC today -- there is a magazine called Chickens by i-5 Publishing - I bought it because it had an article "Marek''s Disease Prevention Tips". Just now got home and I see it is the May/June 2014 issue. Probably has been on their magazine shelf 6-months.

Author is Kristina Mercedes Urquhart - she does state that there are 6 different herpes viruses.

The article states that there are "three options":
1. vaccinate for 95% effectivness
2. Natural Immunity (I will quote her paragraph on page 14 of the issue
"natural immunity is possible through gradual exposure to the virus, thereby creating a natural inoculation against the disease. However this method can be ineffective if young chickens are exposed to too much of the microbes before their immune systems are mature enough to handle them. It's a delicate dance.
Natural breeders prefer this method because it's a fairly easy selection tool: Cull the birds from the flock that develop the illness and continue to breed from those that are strong and vital. The philosophy here is that vaccinating the entire flock masks the weaker individuals that succumb to the disease weakening your breeding program and the health and strength of your best birds in the process..." She finishes the paragraph with saying another natural way is to raise a few turkeys with your flock.
3. Stress reduction making sure they aren't over crowded, never lack feed, water etc.

Nothing else in the article is remarkable IMO or hasn't already been discussed here. She is from Chandler NC and has a homesteading blog http://kristinamercedes.tumbler.com

Thought you might like to know--- there is also an article on vaccinations in the issue.

 

[Michael Apple]

Was in TSC today -- there is a magazine called Chickens by i-5 Publishing - I bought it because it had an article "Marek''s Disease Prevention Tips". Just now got home and I see it is the May/June 2014 issue. Probably has been on their magazine shelf 6-months.

Author is Kristina Mercedes Urquhart - she does state that there are 6 different herpes viruses.

The article states that there are "three options":
1. vaccinate for 95% effectivness
2. Natural Immunity (I will quote her paragraph on page 14 of the issue
"natural immunity is possible through gradual exposure to the virus, thereby creating a natural inoculation against the disease. However this method can be ineffective if young chickens are exposed to too much of the microbes before their immune systems are mature enough to handle them. It's a delicate dance.
Natural breeders prefer this method because it's a fairly easy selection tool: Cull the birds from the flock that develop the illness and continue to breed from those that are strong and vital. The philosophy here is that vaccinating the entire flock masks the weaker individuals that succumb to the disease weakening your breeding program and the health and strength of your best birds in the process..." She finishes the paragraph with saying another natural way is to raise a few turkeys with your flock.
3. Stress reduction making sure they aren't over crowded, never lack feed, water etc.

Nothing else in the article is remarkable IMO or hasn't already been discussed here. She is from Chandler NC and has a homesteading blog http://kristinamercedes.tumbler.com

Thought you might like to know--- there is also an article on vaccinations in the issue.

Thanks for sharing that. All common sense went out the window to me when she mentioned raising a few turkeys with a flock of chickens. I won't argue about it either. I've found people making all sorts of claims about raising them together on this forum despite the problems that also turn up on the forum, and the century long practice of raising different Avian species separate.

When science discovered turkeys don't get Marek's and a vaccine of non-infectious type was derived from the turkey virus which blocks Marek's from infecting turkeys. In simple terms I need to understand, the turkey virus in the vaccine does not put a case of Marek's in the chicken as some other vaccines do. In the case of the vaccine derived from turkeys, it must get into the chicken's system before the Marek's virus does. So that does not even justify raising turkeys with chickens, in addition to the other reasons (Histomoniasis, bickering, injuries, increasing the odds of other viral mutation, etc.).

 

[Going Quackers]

I'm letting the numbers dwindle too. I know it's not feasible for many including me. Broodies? My silkie hen would sit on air about 3/4 of the year. Made me laugh. I finally moved her nest to an storage tub on it's side because I didn't want her sitting in her coop all day long.

Oh my goodness isn't that the truth? for crying out loud i had my one hen try again! is she nuts? winter is coming lol and she already sat this year, i cannot believe how they turn it on so easily. They need an off button lol

 

[Going Quackers]

Was in TSC today -- there is a magazine called Chickens by i-5 Publishing - I bought it because it had an article "Marek''s Disease Prevention Tips". Just now got home and I see it is the May/June 2014 issue. Probably has been on their magazine shelf 6-months.

Author is Kristina Mercedes Urquhart - she does state that there are 6 different herpes viruses.

The article states that there are "three options":
1. vaccinate for 95% effectivness
2. Natural Immunity (I will quote her paragraph on page 14 of the issue
"natural immunity is possible through gradual exposure to the virus, thereby creating a natural inoculation against the disease. However this method can be ineffective if young chickens are exposed to too much of the microbes before their immune systems are mature enough to handle them. It's a delicate dance.
Natural breeders prefer this method because it's a fairly easy selection tool: Cull the birds from the flock that develop the illness and continue to breed from those that are strong and vital. The philosophy here is that vaccinating the entire flock masks the weaker individuals that succumb to the disease weakening your breeding program and the health and strength of your best birds in the process..." She finishes the paragraph with saying another natural way is to raise a few turkeys with your flock.
3. Stress reduction making sure they aren't over crowded, never lack feed, water etc.

Nothing else in the article is remarkable IMO or hasn't already been discussed here. She is from Chandler NC and has a homesteading blog http://kristinamercedes.tumbler.com

Thought you might like to know--- there is also an article on vaccinations in the issue.

Yeah, pretty classic answers lol not insulating the article by any means, just these always seem to be the typical answers which i find raise more questions than they give answers at times.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

ChicKat, you're right, nothing else is remarkable in the article, minus the "else", LOL

Vaccinating and natural (?) resistance are both from exposure. If stronger chicks survive the slower exposure, they will still be carriers and give it to everyone else, as well as the vaccinated ones will. I wonder if one has to cull the affected birds if they're going to die anyway.

I think the best Marek's information is from those who have "focused" only on Marek's.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks for sharing that. All common sense went out the window to me when she mentioned raising a few turkeys with a flock of chickens. I won't argue about it either. I've found people making all sorts of claims about raising them together on this forum despite the problems that also turn up on the forum, and the century long practice of raising different Avian species separate.

When science discovered turkeys don't get Marek's and a vaccine of non-infectious type was derived from the turkey virus which blocks Marek's from infecting turkeys. In simple terms I need to understand, the turkey virus in the vaccine does not put a case of Marek's in the chicken as some other vaccines do. In the case of the vaccine derived from turkeys, it must get into the chicken's system before the Marek's virus does. So that does not even justify raising turkeys with chickens, in addition to the other reasons (Histomoniasis, bickering, injuries, increasing the odds of other viral mutation, etc.).

Thanks for pointing that out Michael - and I did the author an injustice by a quick readers-digest summary of the rest of the paragraph.

She said " ....Turkeys are host to a similar virus (harmless to chickens)that keeps the Merek's virus at bay. If yoiu chose to do this educate yourself about raising turkeys with chickens as this can cause other health issues if not done properly."

The article also says that you should consult your avian vet and continue to educate yourself on options. So if you take the disclaimer(s) into consideration - I think the author has it covered.

 

[ChicKat]

ChicKat, you're right, nothing else is remarkable in the article, minus the "else", LOL

Vaccinating and natural (?) resistance are both from exposure. If stronger chicks survive the slower exposure, they will still be carriers and give it to everyone else, as well as the vaccinated ones will. I wonder if one has to cull the affected birds if they're going to die anyway.

I think the best Marek's information is from those who have "focused" only on Marek's.

Hi seminolewind,

What I hadn't heard stated quite so directly before I read this is the idea that the vaccinations can be detrimental in the long run - or maybe chooks4life has said it -- but just not in a published article.

"The philosophy here is that vaccinating the entire flock masks the weaker individuals that succumb to the disease weakening your breeding program and the health and strength of your best birds in the process."

 

[lalaland]

I'ld be interested in hearing what people are doing with their flocks if they have mareks?
- letting them dwindle and no more chickens eventually?
- bringing in chicks and keeping separate for 6 mo
-letting broodies sit and hatch, mixed with flock

whats the game plan?

so far, everyone seems/appears fine. Its been a month since the diagnosis of mareks in one 4 mo old rooster. waiting for the other shoe to drop.