Murray McMurray chick delivery

[Want Less]

Did anyone else receive a chick order from McMurray this week? Its their first hatch of the year and ours arrived yesterday. Of 28 chicks, two arrived dead, one died shortly after they arrived, and I have 4-5 very weak right now which I have pulled out into a separate brooder to watch & treat.

I have ordered from them several times in the past but the last time was early in 2015. We've always had great success with the chicks we've gotten from there, maybe one or two died per order, if any. I'm waiting the 48 hours to call so I have a full list for them, but I thought I would reach out and see if anyone else is having an issue on this batch too.

 

[aart]

Did you order earlier this year than before?
Thinking temp differences.
Looks like you had a similar experience in 2013?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/742233/chicks-dying-they-were-shipped-today/10#post_10414661

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi.

Many things can happen with shipped chicks.....

I got 2 shipments last year from MPC that lost every chick. The first set arrived in time but tons of star gazers and all except 1 died within the 72 hours they give you,

2nd shipment was in transit 1 more day and most were DOA. USPS messed up and there was evidence the box spent time upside down with the bedding on top of the chicks because there was chick feces on the inside top of the box.

3rd shipment I got from a breeder spent 4 days in transit! Again, thanks USPS. I ended up with 14 out of 22 survivors. Obviously the breeder chicks were MUCH stronger than the hatchery chicks.

Most hatcheries are just that, a hatchery. They get their eggs from contracted farms and have no true quality control.

IMO, breeders need better nutrition to make really viable chicks. But it's very likely they are all feeding JUST layer, as it seems more affordable.... and they probably haven't done the research or care that better nutrition equals better chicks.

Anyways, sorry for your loss! I will be trying to avoid shipping chicks because USPS has messed up our route too many times. While many have zero loss from shipping that hasn't been my experience. And life just isn't that expendable to me.

 

[I Love Layers]

Sorry for the your losses MMH usually does a good job but I know that up north here it's been cold this last week. And since the birds are taken on a truck to MN first it could've been that.

 

[PrancingGoat]

We had 100% success last year with our chicks from a local feed store (Klem's) so we felt confident making our first ever hatchery order this spring from Murray McMurray.

Within the first hour I knew it was a mistake!! They arrived at the post office within 36hours of being shipped. Upon opening the box, 2 of the 15 had arrived dead and trampled, 1 little one was gasping for its last breaths, 1 had no energy to walk, barely could stay awake, and after 4hours of standing over it to ensure it was warm enough, not getting stepped on, as well as feeding it drops of water mixed with the Quik Chik, it sadly perished.
I thought that at least the worst was behind us but now (10 days later) another of the chicks (which I noticed had been eating and drinking this whole time but not growing as quickly) started to act lethargic, wouldn't take food, and barely could stand. Within 6hours, it too passed :C
I know not all chicks will make it, but 6 out of 15 so far and it hasn't even been two weeks. I love animals and my chickens are family so this has been pretty devastating.

 

[lzbloomy]

our Murray Mcmurray feather footed bantam order arrived the first week of May, and it has been a long month of doctoring and composting chicks. we are down to 13 from, 2 near death when the box was opened picked up right away from post office. one dyed bright green from being smashed into the suppliement at the bottom of the box died in 24 hours as did another two - not a chick novice and did what the MMC reps on the phone said to do, blaming stress. from that point pasty butt all month long and losing one after another, two little ones hanging on, one now with a scaly butt is breathing his or her last, struggling all the way. something must be wrong

 

[EggSighted4Life]

our Murray Mcmurray feather footed bantam order arrived the first week of May, and it has been a long month of doctoring and composting chicks. we are down to 13 from, 2 near death when the box was opened picked up right away from post office. one dyed bright green from being smashed into the suppliement at the bottom of the box died in 24 hours as did another two - not a chick novice and did what the MMC reps on the phone said to do, blaming stress. from that point pasty butt all month long and losing one after another, two little ones hanging on, one now with a scaly butt is breathing his or her last, struggling all the way. something must be wrong

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sometimes a little added protein can clear up pasty butt, so I read. Never heard of scaly butt. Sorry for your loss and feel your pain of time spent trying to save chicks. I personally might try adding a little raw apple cider vinager with Mother to the water as it's a probiotic. On top of that I would get some vitamins.. it made a big difference for my shipped chicks. I just got bird vitamins but making sure it has the B's. Poly Vi Sol baby vitamins with NO iron is also a good option.

Can I figure since you say you are not a chick novice.. that your chicks have a place to cool down, not just a place to stay warm? Since that is sometimes the cause of pasty butt?

A lot of breeders still use 16% protein layer feed (it's the cheapest).. which is the bare minimum for egg layers. It doesn't necessarily give enough nutrients to hatch healthy chicks. That is my opinion and many will disagree with me. But for my breeders I use at least 20% and people who show their birds use even higher than that because it gives their birds beautiful, shiny, and healthy looking feathers.

Also, bringing in a clump of dirt/grass helps to build their immuninty before they are put out to pasture full time.

SInce you are still losing chicks I would suggest that you supplement with electrolytes, though it is not *usually recommended to use any supplement for more than 10 days. It's important not to mix stronger than recommended because while vitamins can not be overdosed on, minerals such as potassium and salt very much can. For a chick that seems to be failing I will dose a drop of vitamins straight to their beak. This helped many but not all chicks.

Simple electrolyte recipe is... 2 cups warm water, 2 Tablespoons brown sugar, 1/2 teaspoon each salt and baking soda. Stir until dissolved and serve full strength. (white sugar is OK but brown is better). Add the vitamins to this solution if you can.

I will also add that even hatching at home, not all will survive. Sometimes there are things you can't detect and those chicks go in the boxes pretty fast. While MM may hatch all the chicks, the eggs still come from contracted breeders is my understanding. And I don't think big timers care as much about their breeding as some of us do. As long as their birds are OK so are they (my perspective)... But I want the best for my birds and therefor provide the best. Things don't just slip by me...

Hope the rest are well!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@PrancingGoat
Welcome to BYC!

Sorry for your loss.

I did lose an older chick once because I had quit looking for pasty butt since I didn't think it was any longer a concern. But when inspecting the passed chick discovered it. Talk about kicking myself! Same description as yours. Nexst time I saw a chick holding it's wings a little lower, I knew to act right away. It's especially easy to miss one pasty butt in a brood of 18 or so chicks, at least for me.

Losing chicks can really steal your joy and make you paranoid about the ones left. It takes a while to stop fearing you will walk over and find another dead. Especially when it happens this late in the game.

If you saw an earlier post of mine.. I got 2 shipments of 14-20 chicks of which ONLY 2 survived the second shipment due to extreme measures taken on my part. A third shipment from a breeder actually spent 4 days in shipping and I believe 14 out of 21 survived.

I will mention that your 100% survival rate from the feed store is because feed stores absorb the loss before reselling the chicks so customers rarely see the deceased. One of my LFS won't let chicks go until they are 5 days old to try and ensure no more losses. And sometimes they have more loss than others. May depend on breed/weather/shipping, lots of variables. Only issue with feed store chicks is you get to select from what they have chosen so you might not get the breeds you desire. But all their chicks come from the hatchery as well. Different stores may order from different hatcheries, I know mine do.

Any suggestions I can make are in the post just prior to this one.

Hope the rest do well!

Sorry if my #'s don't add up exactly from previous posts... memories fade a little. But hopefully still close to accurate.

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sometimes a little added protein can clear up pasty butt, so I read. Never heard of scaly butt. Sorry for your loss and feel your pain of time spent trying to save chicks. I personally might try adding a little raw apple cider vinager with Mother to the water as it's a probiotic. On top of that I would get some vitamins.. it made a big difference for my shipped chicks. I just got bird vitamins but making sure it has the B's. Poly Vi Sol baby vitamins with NO iron is also a good option.

Can I figure since you say you are not a chick novice.. that your chicks have a place to cool down, not just a place to stay warm? Since that is sometimes the cause of pasty butt?

A lot of breeders still use 16% protein layer feed (it's the cheapest).. which is the bare minimum for egg layers. It doesn't necessarily give enough nutrients to hatch healthy chicks. That is my opinion and many will disagree with me. But for my breeders I use at least 20% and people who show their birds use even higher than that because it gives their birds beautiful, shiny, and healthy looking feathers.

Also, bringing in a clump of dirt/grass helps to build their immuninty before they are put out to pasture full time.

SInce you are still losing chicks I would suggest that you supplement with electrolytes, though it is not *usually recommended to use any supplement for more than 10 days. It's important not to mix stronger than recommended because while vitamins can not be overdosed on, minerals such as potassium and salt very much can. For a chick that seems to be failing I will dose a drop of vitamins straight to their beak. This helped many but not all chicks.

Simple electrolyte recipe is... 2 cups warm water, 2 Tablespoons brown sugar, 1/2 teaspoon each salt and baking soda. Stir until dissolved and serve full strength. (white sugar is OK but brown is better). Add the vitamins to this solution if you can.

I will also add that even hatching at home, not all will survive. Sometimes there are things you can't detect and those chicks go in the boxes pretty fast. While MM may hatch all the chicks, the eggs still come from contracted breeders is my understanding. And I don't think big timers care as much about their breeding as some of us do. As long as their birds are OK so are they (my perspective)... But I want the best for my birds and therefor provide the best. Things don't just slip by me...

Hope the rest are well!

Pasty vent can be fatal. That is why with chicks we raise they get a regular vent check. A little warm water and gentle paper towel will alleviate a pasted up vent. Sometimes over distance, depending on the age, mortality rates can go up. That is why USPS wants chicks shipped within 48 hours of hatch, so they can at least survive on their yolks. The older they are sent, the higher the mortality rate. I have rejected chick sales to folks that have hmmed and hawed over 48 hours, because I did not want to risk dead chicks which seems cruel.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Pasty vent can be fatal. That is why with chicks we raise they get a regular vent check. A little warm water and gentle paper towel will alleviate a pasted up vent. Sometimes over distance, depending on the age, mortality rates can go up. That is why USPS wants chicks shipped within 48 hours of hatch, so they can at least survive on their yolks. The older they are sent, the higher the mortality rate. I have rejected chick sales to folks that have hmmed and hawed over 48 hours, because I did not want to risk dead chicks which seems cruel.

Yes, very fatal.. we usually check pasty butt as well. But have learned that for us large broods are easily confused. In the future we will probably set them to another box to tell who has or has not been checked to ensure that all do get checked.

All shippers shipped their chicks on the first hatch day. USPS screwed up, plain and simple... as verified by their own tracking system. But I can definitely see how it would make a difference. I will also add that not all chicks hatch at the same time.. and the ones that hatch earlier seem to have the best chance and be the strongest. So if hatcheries are putting birds that were born even 12 hours apart, the ones that don't have their land legs on them yet will be trampled and bumped more easily.

I see you are NPIP certified.. what protein % do you feed your breeders? How long have you been doing it? Do you happen to know you fertility, hatch, and viability rates? Or what changes you have seen effect them? Thanks for sharing!