Murray McMurray chick delivery

[RoosterCogburn7]

Yes, very fatal.. we usually check pasty butt as well. But have learned that for us large broods are easily confused. In the future we will probably set them to another box to tell who has or has not been checked to ensure that all do get checked.

All shippers shipped their chicks on the first hatch day. USPS screwed up, plain and simple... as verified by their own tracking system. But I can definitely see how it would make a difference. I will also add that not all chicks hatch at the same time.. and the ones that hatch earlier seem to have the best chance and be the strongest. So if hatcheries are putting birds that were born even 12 hours apart, the ones that don't have their land legs on them yet will be trampled and bumped more easily.

I see you are NPIP certified.. what protein % do you feed your breeders? How long have you been doing it? Do you happen to know you fertility, hatch, and viability rates? Or what changes you have seen effect them? Thanks for sharing!

All my breeders get layer pellets with grit, and flock fixer for molts, occasionally I will throw in some egg maker for protein. If the eggs get some dirty we use diatamatious earth to naturally deworm. For more protein we occasionally use meal worms as treats. But, for the most part layer pellets with grit does the job. I check fertility rates by running a hatch on my own. The fertility rates have been really good. I keep 2-3 roosters around to insure that fertility rates are good. For instance, the last hatch of Coronation Sussex I ran had a great fertility rate, and I have brooder box full of them. So far, it is appears I have mostly females. I have 5 boys. I am planning on culling 2, because 5 roos are too many. I will need to observe temperament and those that most represent the breed before making those choices, not to mention some help from the kids.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

All my breeders get layer pellets with grit, and flock fixer for molts, occasionally I will throw in some egg maker for protein. If the eggs get some dirty we use diatamatious earth to naturally deworm. For more protein we occasionally use meal worms as treats. But, for the most part layer pellets with grit does the job. I check fertility rates by running a hatch on my own. The fertility rates have been really good. I keep 2-3 roosters around to insure that fertility rates are good. For instance, the last hatch of Coronation Sussex I ran had a great fertility rate, and I have brooder box full of them. So far, it is appears I have mostly females. I have 5 boys. I am planning on culling 2, because 5 roos are too many. I will need to observe temperament and those that most represent the breed before making those choices, not to mention some help from the kids.

OK, so I know it's a hotly debated topic.. which I am on the anti side, but I'm not being ugly here... can you tell me how it is that a soft, porous rock known as DE can pass through the gizzard where it gets it's microscopic shards rubbed (the part that supposed to be effective) off by other hard rocks in the gizzard before going into the intestines is supposed to be effective at killing off worms there? Have you ever done a fecal count before and after worming with DE? And if it is *supposedly* rendered useless in the garden after it becomes wet, then is it not useless after it gets wet in the chickens throat or whatever? And sorry, 1 more question.. do you also feed your boys/chicks layer? And what is the oldest boy you have kept alive? OK one more, if your eggs get some dirty, why do you presume it's worms and not say a rainy day or poo bum like some of my fluffy girls have to get a trim in spring? I promise, this is the last one, two.. if the shards scrape things to death (via dehydration or what have you), are you not concerned about what it does to your girls lungs, eyes, esophagus.. even though the body does self repair? Did you know that many feed already contain DE up to 2% as an anti caking agent.. and if it were actually effective at deworming do you not think the manufacturers would be touting it's capabilities on their bags?

Please know, I ask sincerely as I am willing to learn what others' thought processes are.. anyone who thinks they know it all is just a fool.

Thanks again for sharing.. and since I am trying to stay on topic I will note that these question relate to the vitality of the hens and thus the viability of chicks, which may eventually be shipped.

 

[Eps32]

Did anyone else receive a chick order from McMurray this week? Its their first hatch of the year and ours arrived yesterday. Of 28 chicks, two arrived dead, one died shortly after they arrived, and I have 4-5 very weak right now which I have pulled out into a separate brooder to watch & treat.

I have ordered from them several times in the past but the last time was early in 2015. We've always had great success with the chicks we've gotten from there, maybe one or two died per order, if any. I'm waiting the 48 hours to call so I have a full list for them, but I thought I would reach out and see if anyone else is having an issue on this batch too.

This is why I switched to Mayer hatchery to many dead chicks with mcmurray I just received 40 chicks from Meyer every one alive and healthy

 

[PrancingGoat]

our Murray Mcmurray feather footed bantam order arrived the first week of May, and it has been a long month of doctoring and composting chicks. we are down to 13 from, 2 near death when the box was opened picked up right away from post office. one dyed bright green from being smashed into the suppliement at the bottom of the box died in 24 hours as did another two - not a chick novice and did what the MMC reps on the phone said to do, blaming stress. from that point pasty butt all month long and losing one after another, two little ones hanging on, one now with a scaly butt is breathing his or her last, struggling all the way. something must be wrong

@lzbloomy Just wanted to say how sorry I am for you to go through that too!!! I definitely feel for you. It was so heart breaking to open that box to find all those delicate, tiny lives struggling just to breathe :c
We received our Murray McMurray chicks the 2nd week of May and they were also bantams. After seeing how bad of a condition they were in, I spent that entire first day researching (a ton on this site) and tried everything I read! We offered the sick ones everything from scrambled egg yolk, to the Quik Chik electrolyte mixed in water, to the gro-gel from the hatchery, to sugar water, but so many arrived so incredibly weak, that they just seemed to want to go to sleep until they died.

I agree with EggSighted that pasty butt is definitely something that can kill quickly but since you are not a chick novice, I am sure you watched for that! I just wanted to point it out because I noticed the one that died at 10 days old had pasty butt multiple times but I always took care of it promptly. (After losing so many that first day, I was so paranoid about them that I was even waking up in the night just to check their butts).

When my favorite one died at 10 days, my DH saw how hard it was on me and immediately ordered a Brinsea EcoGlow Brooder off of Amazon. It arrived the next day and since then (a week since that death), all the chicks have survived with no signs of pasty butt. Probably just a coincidence but at least it solves any possibilities of them overheating which, as EggSighted pointed out, is a concern when you are seeing so many getting pasty butt.

Since I originally posted, I had a ton of people recommend Poultry Nutri-Drench so now I keep that on hand. I haven't had any become ill since my last post (knock on wood), so I haven't tested it yet, but it may work for you like it did for others!

All that being said, WOW the stuff I have read about Murray McMurray is insane. It seems the bantams are very often dying in huge numbers, but there are also reports of chicks testing positive for Marek's, getting sick with pneumonia, arriving with blisters or deformed and broken feet.

I think because they are a huge hatchery, it is probably as EggSighted said and they feed the layers less than optimal feed, therefore producing weaker chicks. I decided to stay away from hatcheries altogether after this and going to try private breeder hatching eggs next time if I can't get the breeds I want near me.

@EggSighted4Life : Thanks for all the great advice!! You seem to really care about your chickens

 

[CooksCritters]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is a "star-gazer" ? I've never heard that term before.

Hi.

Many things can happen with shipped chicks.....

I got 2 shipments last year from MPC that lost every chick. The first set arrived in time but tons of star gazers and all except 1 died within the 72 hours they give you,

2nd shipment was in transit 1 more day and most were DOA. USPS messed up and there was evidence the box spent time upside down with the bedding on top of the chicks because there was chick feces on the inside top of the box.

3rd shipment I got from a breeder spent 4 days in transit! Again, thanks USPS. I ended up with 14 out of 22 survivors. Obviously the breeder chicks were MUCH stronger than the hatchery chicks.

Most hatcheries are just that, a hatchery. They get their eggs from contracted farms and have no true quality control.

IMO, breeders need better nutrition to make really viable chicks. But it's very likely they are all feeding JUST layer, as it seems more affordable.... and they probably haven't done the research or care that better nutrition equals better chicks.

Anyways, sorry for your loss! I will be trying to avoid shipping chicks because USPS has messed up our route too many times. While many have zero loss from shipping that hasn't been my experience. And life just isn't that expendable to me.

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

OK, so I know it's a hotly debated topic.. which I am on the anti side, but I'm not being ugly here... can you tell me how it is that a soft, porous rock known as DE can pass through the gizzard where it gets it's microscopic shards rubbed (the part that supposed to be effective) off by other hard rocks in the gizzard before going into the intestines is supposed to be effective at killing off worms there? Have you ever done a fecal count before and after worming with DE? And if it is *supposedly* rendered useless in the garden after it becomes wet, then is it not useless after it gets wet in the chickens throat or whatever? And sorry, 1 more question.. do you also feed your boys/chicks layer? And what is the oldest boy you have kept alive? OK one more, if your eggs get some dirty, why do you presume it's worms and not say a rainy day or poo bum like some of my fluffy girls have to get a trim in spring? I promise, this is the last one, two.. if the shards scrape things to death (via dehydration or what have you), are you not concerned about what it does to your girls lungs, eyes, esophagus.. even though the body does self repair? Did you know that many feed already contain DE up to 2% as an anti caking agent.. and if it were actually effective at deworming do you not think the manufacturers would be touting it's capabilities on their bags?

Please know, I ask sincerely as I am willing to learn what others' thought processes are.. anyone who thinks they know it all is just a fool.

Thanks again for sharing.. and since I am trying to stay on topic I will note that these question relate to the vitality of the hens and thus the viability of chicks, which may eventually be shipped.

I can tell you I see results in the eggs come out less dirty when DE is applied. Poopy eggs tend to be a sign of needing to be wormed. The first reaction to give the hen a poison that makes their eggs not edible or can be used for a week. Something like that reminds me of agent orange. Sure it worked, but the side effects are devastating and still are devastating to the next generation with birth defects.

 

[aart]

I can tell you I see results in the eggs come out less dirty when DE is applied. Poopy eggs tend to be a sign of needing to be wormed. The first reaction to give the hen a poison that makes their eggs not edible or can be used for a week. Something like that reminds me of agent orange. Sure it worked, but the side effects are devastating and still are devastating to the next generation with birth defects.

Poopy eggs can happen for several reasons other than worms.

Unless you've had a fecal exam done by a reputable lab, with species and count of worms and their eggs, you don't really know that they have worms.

Chances are the DE just absorbs excess liquid in loose stools(that could also have several causes)...some DE products are 90% bentonite clays, which is a main ingredient in human diarrhea treatments(like kaopectate).

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@lzbloomy Just wanted to say how sorry I am for you to go through that too!!! I definitely feel for you. It was so heart breaking to open that box to find all those delicate, tiny lives struggling just to breathe :c
We received our Murray McMurray chicks the 2nd week of May and they were also bantams. After seeing how bad of a condition they were in, I spent that entire first day researching (a ton on this site) and tried everything I read! We offered the sick ones everything from scrambled egg yolk, to the Quik Chik electrolyte mixed in water, to the gro-gel from the hatchery, to sugar water, but so many arrived so incredibly weak, that they just seemed to want to go to sleep until they died.

I agree with EggSighted that pasty butt is definitely something that can kill quickly but since you are not a chick novice, I am sure you watched for that! I just wanted to point it out because I noticed the one that died at 10 days old had pasty butt multiple times but I always took care of it promptly. (After losing so many that first day, I was so paranoid about them that I was even waking up in the night just to check their butts).

When my favorite one died at 10 days, my DH saw how hard it was on me and immediately ordered a Brinsea EcoGlow Brooder off of Amazon. It arrived the next day and since then (a week since that death), all the chicks have survived with no signs of pasty butt. Probably just a coincidence but at least it solves any possibilities of them overheating which, as EggSighted pointed out, is a concern when you are seeing so many getting pasty butt.

Since I originally posted, I had a ton of people recommend Poultry Nutri-Drench so now I keep that on hand. I haven't had any become ill since my last post (knock on wood), so I haven't tested it yet, but it may work for you like it did for others!

All that being said, WOW the stuff I have read about Murray McMurray is insane. It seems the bantams are very often dying in huge numbers, but there are also reports of chicks testing positive for Marek's, getting sick with pneumonia, arriving with blisters or deformed and broken feet.

I think because they are a huge hatchery, it is probably as EggSighted said and they feed the layers less than optimal feed, therefore producing weaker chicks. I decided to stay away from hatcheries altogether after this and going to try private breeder hatching eggs next time if I can't get the breeds I want near me.

@EggSighted4Life : Thanks for all the great advice!! You seem to really care about your chickens

Cute babies.

Couple of things to note.. the shipments I lost from MPC were also bantam. I discovered that I should still crush the crumbles a little for them the first weeks or so. And I bought the Poultry Nutri Drench since it has been so touted and I even passed on the good reviews. However, best I can tell it's just liquid vitamins... Looks and smells the same as other bird vitamins I bought.

 

[aart]

..... I bought the Poultry Nutri Drench since it has been so touted and I even passed on the good reviews. However, best I can tell it's just liquid vitamins... Looks and smells the same as other bird vitamins I bought.

Something I read was that the ND formulation is instantly absorbed with no digestion required. Don't know if it's true or not...or if other vitamins assimilate differently.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I can tell you I see results in the eggs come out less dirty when DE is applied. Poopy eggs tend to be a sign of needing to be wormed. The first reaction to give the hen a poison that makes their eggs not edible or can be used for a week. Something like that reminds me of agent orange. Sure it worked, but the side effects are devastating and still are devastating to the next generation with birth defects.

Well my first reaction isn't to treat with poison (which I consider DE to be), but I would have a fecal float test done to make sure I wasn't treating for what I don't have and then calling it a success. (Agent Orange might actually be a little before my time since I recognize the term but don't have a strong reation.)

Again I'm not trying to be ugly.. just wanna know if you have scientific evidence that you needed treatment and it worked? That's awesome that the eggs no longer have poo, so it worked for that... but doesn't show it being relative to worms. And can you site your source that poopy eggs means worms please? I just wish ANYBODY who worms with DE would have a fecal count done before and after... its $15 at my vet. I might even pay just to get the info! But not a single person I talk with, and that's a lot here on BYC, has ever spent the measly $15 to ensure what they are doing is effective. ( I know $15 is a lot for some people, seriously.)

When it comes to anything including treating for worms or parasites and even chosing a president... it's not always about what we like but chosing the lesser of the evils!

I'm not trying to change your mind or your method, We all have to do what makes sense to us... With the factors I mentioned like DE going through the gizzard and others, I wanted to know how you made sense of it all or if you didn't have that info available and now have more to consider. I'm actually being open minded here, I want someone to SHOW me that it works. Please know, I'm not picking on you and appreciate the chance for a conversation without someone being offended!