My first ever Bumblefoot surgery went well, but have post surgery concerns.

[sally4500]

For all of you who have a little anxiety to preform their first Bumblefoot surgery, it is really not that bad. I was a wreck, thinking of all the things that could go wrong, but honestly, I can say it was a piece of cake. The plug was big and long and ugly, but Charlotte was a good patient. It didnt seem to bother her that I was poking around, and all the great threads that I read on BYC helped make the surgery a success.

Now post op for 10 days, I am still changing the dressing daily, and applying neosporine after cleaning with hydrogen peroxide, as there is still a small whole in the middle of the wound.

Is this all I should be doing until it scabs over completely??

Should I still be soaking in E salt??

Is keeping it soft stopping it from be able to scab??

Any help is appreciated!!! Thanks!!!

 

[amillecay]

I did a bumble foot surgery and like you I thought it would be horrible and it turned out not to be all so bad but.... I didn't get all of it out or something because it got all puffy again, I didn't continue with the Epsom salt soak and i was told that I should have because it would have helped know the last little bit out, so yes I think you should be doing those, I do about 1 cup in about an inch and a half of water in the bottom of a 2 gallon bucket when I do soak.

I took her to the vet because well.... I just couldn't bring my self to do it again. The vet we found did a great job on her! He gave me an antibiotic to give to her (Amoxicillin) and some Betadine so put in the water along with the Epsom salt soaks, and do it for about 20 mins a day.

If it hasn't completely scabbed over then I suggest putting her in a cage (dog crate or what ever you find where her feet can keep clean) and taking the bandages off and letting it get some air, it's gonna be just like how it is when you have a cut and put a bandaid on it and it just takes for ever to heal because it has no air so you take it off and it heals really pretty fast.

 

[KansasKate]

They've done studies to suggest that humans heal better when they keep bandages on, not when they, as we were all taught, let it "get some air." I suspect it is better to give the wound time to heal, and to avoid irritating it with hydrogen peroxide. I would keep the salt soaks and keep the antibiotic, such as Betadine and/or Neosporin, and make sure your bandage fully occludes the wound. Keeping further bacteria from invading the surgical site is important.

 

[janinepeters]

Keeping further bacteria from invading the surgical site is important.

Agree. I've read a bunch of threads on bumblefoot and get the impression that a lot of the recurrences we hear about are due to post-surgical infection. Either people are not following sterile technique very well (during surgery or during post-surgical wound care), or they are removing the dressing too soon.

Amillecay, just curious: Do you know if your vet used a local anesthetic for the bumblefoot surgery?

 

[terryg]

I took care of my first-ever bumblefoot this month. Avoid hydrogen peroxide as it can damage new tissue growth. I soaked the foot once in epsom salts. Used antibiotic ointment. Bandaged with a pad and duct tape. After less than a week the bandage was off and she was totally healed. (And you can see from my photos that it was a bad case to start!) Every case is different. Sometimes the infection gets into the tissues and you can't get rid of it. My situation was the best-case scenario. You can read about it here and see photos:
http://hencam.com/faq/bumblefoot

 

[KansasKate]

Has anyone here used "sugardine" (sugar/betadine poultice)? I did surgery yesterday and I feel like I probably damaged a lot of healthy tissue unnecessarily. There is something to be said for having a veterinary degree. I will be checking the site today, even though it's early, because I want to clean the wound better and re-bandage and try the sugardine in case something else is in there. When I'm confident that she's well bandaged, I'm going to leave the dressing alone for a few days. I think soaking an open wound is good only for debridement; generally, you want to seal a wound and leave it alone post-surgically, at least with people, so I'm not sure why that wouldn't be true for poultry!

 

[theoldchick]

Sugardine is the latest fad of an old remedy used in veterinary medicine long ago. While this poultice does entice a nice bed of granulation tissue which aids in healing, this type of material does require daily changing and is messy. I won't mention the ants and flies attracted to this mixture. The patient MUST be kept in a clean area-out of the barn and in the house away from insects.

Another type of bandage which has worked well is one called a wet-dry bandage. This is where a layer of saline soaked gauze is applied to the wound and covered with dry gauze. The gauze held in place with vet wrap. This bandage can be changed every three days only if the patient is kept in very clean conditions.

Chickens, like horses, can produce proud flesh during the healing process. This is an over growth of tissue which requires periodic removal.

One of my favorite bandages for chickens is the iodine/epsom salt mixture. Really helps draw out infection. I like to use this bandage a few days before bumble foot surgery as this helps create a visible 'head' that allows you to have a better idea where to open the wound for optimum drainage.

Once I open the wound, remove the gunk, but I don't bandage the wound. Instead I put the chicken in a dog carrier whose bottom is covered either in paper towels or a large Depends diaper. This allows the foot to remain clean and continue with proper drainage. If needed I will apply betadine, or if the wound is extra weepy I'll use strong iodine. No need to squeeze foot.

Keep the chicken in the carrier until the foot is healed. If needed, a chicken buddy may stay just for the comfort of the patient.


As you can see, once you make the decision to cut, you have to be prepared to follow up with proper care.

Another option before you do bumble foot surgery, is to do an betadine/epsoms salt soak (about 20 minutes) every day for 5 days and see what happens. This method requires a docile chicken or you'll be wearing the solution!


Tip of the day: Kotex mini-pads cut to size make handy bandage material.

Hope this helps.

 

[amillecay]

Agree. I've read a bunch of threads on bumblefoot and get the impression that a lot of the recurrences we hear about are due to post-surgical infection. Either people are not following sterile technique very well (during surgery or during post-surgical wound care), or they are removing the dressing too soon.

Amillecay, just curious: Do you know if your vet used a local anesthetic for the bumblefoot surgery?

Nope he used a syringe to cut it and he washed it out really well, we put and bandage on it so she didn't pick at it, that was just for the 1st day, and let me add one more thing, while she's been healing I have had her in a big dog cage with clean bedding in the bottom so if I take the bandage of it all stays clean, though I do let her run around before I do the soaking.

 

[amillecay]

Has anyone here used "sugardine" (sugar/betadine poultice)? I did surgery yesterday and I feel like I probably damaged a lot of healthy tissue unnecessarily. There is something to be said for having a veterinary degree. I will be checking the site today, even though it's early, because I want to clean the wound better and re-bandage and try the sugardine in case something else is in there. When I'm confident that she's well bandaged, I'm going to leave the dressing alone for a few days. I think soaking an open wound is good only for debridement; generally, you want to seal a wound and leave it alone post-surgically, at least with people, so I'm not sure why that wouldn't be true for poultry!

You will probably want to keep soaking it while it is open because if there is anything left in there yet soaking it will break everything up and get it out... that's just my opinion.

 

[KansasKate]

Advice? My first bumblefoot surgery was Saturday. On one foot, the bumble wasn't obvious, except for the part attached to the scab and the bump on top, which I lanced separately. I massaged, etc, probed, and, as I suggested above, feel like I probably damaged healthy flesh. In the case of the second one, I just took out the scab which, too, had a yellow hard thing attached. No massage with that one. Anyway, on both feet, I sprayed liberally with Betadine throughout the process, and bandaged with Neosporin, gauze, and wound wrap (the human version of vet wrap) to occlude the wound.

Two days later, I changed the bandages, rinsed the foot in warm Epsom salt water, and put 'sugardine' on the wound and gauze. Bandaged as before.

Today, I changed the bandage for the second time. The worse foot is still warm to the touch. Of the two feet, one looks a little better, and other looks pretty tender. I soaked them in cool Epsom salt water this time (reading what I did about staph and cold), then betadine, neosporin, gauze, and wound wrap.

I have some Tricide Neo on the way, because I have another chicken with double-bumblefoot and want to avoid the surgery. I don't feel like this was entirely successful.

Advice time: do those of you with experience think I need to go to penicillin with my first girl, or give it a few days? Before penicillin, should I try the Tricide Neo soak, since I have to do it with the other chicken anyway, or has the time for that passed? The one on which I've done surgery is laying, walking without a limp, and, while slower, otherwise in pretty good form. I feel like she's already the 'susceptible' chicken, more inclined to diarrhea as a pullet, missing bottom feathers from, presumably, pecking, and more inclined to lay a thin egg when stressed. She's been a trooper, but I want to make this easier for her. I'm already holding her eggs, so that's not an issue; but I'm worried about adding chest injections to her already stressed experience.