My first necropsy on my lovely Matilda (graphic pic warning).

[PolergirlOH]

So I decided I wanted to do an autopsy as I think it is important to understand why I loose chickens and as a new'ish chicken owner to have a fuller understanding of my girls. I looked up some instructions on line and went for it.

I’m really sorry for your loss.
I have to say, though, I think you’re amazing for doing the necropsy. Truly amazing!

 

[rebrascora]

So sorry you lost Matilda and good on you for doing the necropsy (*)
Always better to have an idea what happened.

I've done 3 and found really large blood clots in each (ie fatty liver disease). I didn't necropsy the first one, she was 3 months shy of 2 years. Fine and looking well at 8 AM, dead at 11 still flexible. I did do the next 3, all the same symptoms, the last was fine at 6 PM, dead in the same spot I saw her half an hour later. At least it is a non painful death given how quick they bleed out internally.

I am ASSUMING that is what happened to Aria a week ago. Fine in the morning, talking to me from the alpaca stand, dead on the ground later in the day. She was only 10 months old.

* autopsy is humans, necropsy for animals other than humans.

I'm so sorry to read that you have had multiple losses like that and I would agree that it was likely Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome. Did those birds have heavy yellow fat deposits and their liver a tan colour and friable structure? Those are the things that would confirm it. If so, it would be wise to reassess your flock's diet if you have not done so already. One bird with fatty liver might be a genetic susceptibility but more than one and diet would be the concern. Too many carbohydrates are usually the cause, so being too generous with the scratch or corn or bread etc are the usual suspects but whole grain feeds like Scratch and Peck, fed ad lib from a feeder or too liberally offered so that the higher carb grains are eaten and the more protein rich pulses are left till last or for lower ranking birds to eat or left to waste or for rodents to clean up, can often be responsible.

Apologies if you have already discovered the cause and adjusted your flock's diet if that was it the potential cause. Hopefully others can learn from reading this.

 

[rebrascora]

Interesting...so a lash egg is what that mess was...thank you for the information!

I have a strong streak of scientific curiosity. The largest portion of what I removed from the hen in the photo was about the size of a grapefruit. It consisted of nested spheres of what appeared to be a tough layer encasing yolky paste. The tough layers had definite integrity. That was what led me to speculate that the hen's body had made repeated attempts to encapsulate the original deposit. There were auxiliary deposits surrounding it, which I presume were additional yolks backed up.

Is salpigitis contagious? Hens with balding butts in friends' flocks generally have been dismissed as the victims of hens higher in the pecking order. I'm now wondering if that is perhaps dead wrong. Not sure if the hens looked like they had swelling because we aren't used to seeing them without feathers or if they actually were swollen.

Yes that is classic lash egg with concentric layers of material. The chicken's body tries to encapsulate the infection and chicken pus is a waxy, cheesy consistency to try to isolate and contain the infection from spreading into the blood stream and further afield. Unfortunately the size of those lash eggs becomes a terminal factor and grapefruit size is not uncommon and must make the chicken incredibly uncomfortable with no way of passing it once it becomes that large. Eventually it presses on the gut and other organs and the bird becomes unable to pass waste and either dies of starvation or more often toxic shock.
I do not believe that salpingitis is in itself contagious but I believe it is caused by the e-coli bacteria, which is present in faeces but can multiply in the oviduct if it is able to breach that organ. This can occur as a result of prolapse or perhaps dirty nesting material or sometimes keeping a drake with chickens, particularly adolescent hormonal drakes as they will often attempt to mate the chickens and their anatomy is very different to cockerels and can introduce infection that way.
Prolapse will occur more frequently if birds are overweight or obese usually due to an inappropriate diet, so fat chickens are at higher risk of salpingitis (and internal laying), but most people have no idea that their chickens are overweight because their feathers hide it and they have no idea what a healthy weight laying hen should feel like. We only ever see and feel chickens without their feathers when they are on the kitchen bench being prepared for dinner and those chickens are much, much plumper than your average laying hen which are actually quite scrawny, so our perception can be awry for assessing them anyway.

Of course butt feather loss can be due to other reasons like feather pecking and lice or vent gleet or even moulting, so it is not safe to assume that all hens with bald butts have reproductive disorders going on but it is important to investigate and try to establish a cause for it.

 

[bruceha2000]

Did those birds have heavy yellow fat deposits and their liver a tan colour and friable structure?

Currently have 18 hens ages just under a year to almost 7. Their diet is commercial layer feed, some kitchen scraps, BOSS snack in the morning, scratch at night. The BOSS and scratch quantities are a 3 oz cat food can. They free range when there is no snow and eat whatever they find. Several acres of space available though they seem to prefer being around the house than out behind the barn.

Yes on the yellow fat. For the non squeamish here is one picture, the bird was 15 months old.

 

[rebrascora]

Currently have 18 hens ages just under a year to almost 7. Their diet is commercial layer feed, some kitchen scraps, BOSS snack in the morning, scratch at night. The BOSS and scratch quantities are a 3 oz cat food can. They free range when there is no snow and eat whatever they find. Several acres of space available though they seem to prefer being around the house than out behind the barn.

Yes on the yellow fat. For the non squeamish here is one picture, the bird was 15 months old.
View attachment 1702769

Personally, I would cut the boss and scratch with multiple birds suffering this ailment. If they free range then that should be enough of a treat. I appreciate that you are not giving them a lot but they may be finding other sources of grains around the place, especially if it is a farm. I assume the commercial layer feed is a 16% protein pellet or crumble which may just not be providing enough protein when you are also providing treats, particularly for heavier breeds?
Out of interest, what breeds were the birds you lost to Fatty Liver? I'm thinking possibly larger/heavier breeds or perhaps dominant birds in the flock that were perhaps getting more that their faid share of the treats.

 

[bruceha2000]

KNOWN loss to fatty liver were both EEs, both from the same group of girls June 2015 from Meyer Hatchery. One died at 15 months, the other at 3 years. I still have 1 EE from that batch, she will be 4 next month.

SUSPECTED was the first "fine at 8 AM, dead at 11", nearly 2 year old Partridge Chantecler (from Ideal 2012). The 4th was Aria, 10 month old Barnevelder (from Meyer 2018). I have another Barnevelder from the same hatchery (2017).

None were dominant.

Do you think the girls will let me live if I don't give them their treats? The evening scratch is how I get them back to the barn when they are out front. I could at least cut back to half a can .

 

[rebrascora]

They will come back to the barn once it gets dusk from habit but if you are worried you could swap their scratch for a pan of warm mash made by soaking their layer feed in warm water or fermenting it. If yu sprinkle a little scratch on the top to get them started they will easily transition..... I hope my lot never find out that this wonderful treat is actually their normal boring layer pellets but just in a different form. I sometimes get a bag of unmedicated chick crumbs and mix half and half with the layer pellets to mix with the water to up the protein % and they like that even better.

 

[bruceha2000]

They do come back at dusk, it is when we need them to come in earlier because we have to leave that they are called in. BUT they have been trained to scratch from a young age, especially those that came later than 2012 as all the existing girls know what happens when they are called. So it does seem best that I should at least cut back pretty substantially if the scratch is causing fatty liver. Does the BOSS do that as well?

Just did a little reading, found: "The hemorrhage often occurs when a hen is straining to lay her egg."
Not the case here, 2 were found in the barn alley (their indoor run) and 2 out in the yard where they had been foraging.

 

[rebrascora]

It is the high carb content of the scratch that is the concern but the high level of oils in the BOSS may add to the problem too, so I would stop the BOSS and cut right back or replace the scratch with my mash suggestion. They will easily retrain to a pan of mash instead if you transition it. They might not be overly happy about their new diet but it is better than dropping dead prematurely of fatty liver or suffering reproductive issues like prolapse or egg binding and even Salpingitis and internal laying which can all result from obesity.

 

[Morrigan]

Do you think the girls will let me live if I don't give them their treats? The evening scratch is how I get them back to the barn when they are out front. I could at least cut back to half a can

I like rebrascora's suggestion. Another idea is to make a custom "treat" mix, with only a little BOSS, and other lower cal items like crushed egg shells, greens and millet seeds.