My Hens Are Dying. Can You Help?

[Allthefloofs]

Yes! That is a great resource!

I will use that immediately.

Now I have you keeping an eye on me!
Lettuce is very healthy for my other stock of various invertebrates. I may be new to chickens, but feel confident with those thriving populations.

However, you have been so helpful and knowledgeable that I won't hesitate to accept any advice you may have on these animals as well!

May be better for another forum...though worms are a chicken related field.

My girls love lettuce, I suspend it in the summer as something to do to keep them busy, but I keep it limited is all. There isn't a whole lot of nutritional value to it and it is a bit fibrous depending on type so it can fill them up without giving them much. I do notice their feed doesn't go down as fast when they get it, though that is anecdotal, and it could be because they are spending a lot more time obsessing about the dangling lettuce, rather than eating .
People ask worm questions in the other forums here, I think I am in a few of those threads, though I am more into meal worms and I'm not sure what you are cultivating .

 

[SandLapper]

My girls love lettuce, I suspend it in the summer as something to do to keep them busy, but I keep it limited is all. There isn't a whole lot of nutritional value to it and it is a bit fibrous depending on type so it can fill them up without giving them much. I do notice their feed doesn't go down as fast when they get it, though that is anecdotal, and it could be because they are spending a lot more time obsessing about the dangling lettuce, rather than eating .
People ask worm questions in the other forums here, I think I am in a few of those threads, though I am more into meal worms and I'm not sure what you are cultivating .

I'm going to have to dig through some of those threads then

My girls seem to love lettuce also.

I mainly started giving them lettuce because I stopped throwing them weeds from the garden after the season ended.

I just thought they needed some greens, but maybe not as much as I provided

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Thanks for the compassion.

I mostly just hate not knowing what to do to help.

I already buried the first hen in the orchard, but may consider excavating the body...

My usual feed routine is throwing out scratch in the morning along with a head of lettuce and some shredded carrots.

Later I feed kitchen scraps and let them poke around the pen.

Every other day or so I feed a half dozen scrambled eggs and shells.

They also have oyster shells crushed.

Thanks again

Well, I'm still on page 1 now.. but 100% I think your feed routine is possibly contributing to cause of death.. The very basis for the immune system is nutrition..

Eggs are 34% protein and 64% fat. Scratch is usually around 7% protein with no added vitamins, minerals, or AMINO ACIDS that a ration will have. Lettuce is mostly water. Carrots.. high sugar, no protein.

Everything you are feeding should be a treat and not the main feed source.. There could be ALL kinds of organ damage taking place.

Please understand that I am not here to judge and TONS of folks are feeding incorrectly.. it's THE reason why I ALWAYS ask that question. Hang in there! Hopefully I will find good news by the time read all the new pages.

 

[SandLapper]

Well, I'm still on page 1 now.. but 100% I think your feed routine is possibly contributing to cause of death.. The very basis for the immune system is nutrition..

Eggs are 34% protein and 64% fat. Scratch is usually around 7% protein with no added vitamins, minerals, or AMINO ACIDS that a ration will have. Lettuce is mostly water. Carrots.. high sugar, no protein.

Everything you are feeding should be a treat and not the main feed source.. There could be ALL kinds of organ damage taking place.

Please understand that I am not here to judge and TONS of folks are feeding incorrectly.. it's THE reason why I ALWAYS ask that question. Hang in there! Hopefully I will find good news by the time read all the new pages.

I'm here to learn! So anything else you read and would like to comment on will not be considered judgemental by me.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Also, we are trying to avoid factory farmed meats and any of the by products from that industry. But most commercial chicken feed contains animal protein.

The majority of chicken feed available to me have ZERO animal byproduct.. noting that chickens are NOT vegetarian and NEED some animal derived amino acids which are synthetically added. I know you give bugs also.

Remember, even though you're buying layer feed or all flock, you're not giving your birds the daily antibiotics

But do YOU remember that poultry in the US is also NOT given daily antibiotics and in fact it's against the law now!

I would supplement meal worms and red worms.

I love growing meal worm AND red wigglers.. if your bird eat them.. it's proof your pasture isn't loaded. Meal worms are WAY too slow of turn around to be a viable chicken feed source. They also are not really high in nutrients even when so called "gut loaded". They require their own housing, maintenance, feed source.. and lettuce is JUST a water source for them as well.

When I lived in the irrigated desert on a city lot.. my birds loved the red wigglers I kept in a composting bin. At my new property that's quite lush a large portion of the year with diverse bug and plant life.. they turn their nose up like.. meh, where's the good stuff! Move anything sitting on the ground and the worms and bugs abound. Worms and bugs.. protein and fat yes.. a great TREAT.. for DOMESTIC chickens which are far more prolific layers than truly wild free range birds.. If THAT is your goal, then research appropriate breeds and go with something much lighter bodied.

I just wonder...when was formula feed developed?

And how many small farmers around the world have access to bagged pellet feed?

Probably when chickens started popping out close to 300 eggs per year and kept in confinement to feed the masses of people that continue breeding out of control. Folks keep chickens as pets and for entertainment instead of as a NEEDED food source, we keep MORE than we need, because we feel entitled to do so. So basically.. when people stopped hunting gathering or wondering where their next meal was coming from. It true developing country small farmers don't have the options we do.. They also don't keep fat fluffy bottom rounded birds or eat them for dinner every day the way WE do.. They eat meat on occasion and their birds are smaller bodied requiring less forage overall. Today's average breeds would require at least an acre per head.. AND they would need to be taught earlier (maybe by a mother hen) what things to forage for. A chick raised with no mum and indoors in a brooder will be *less* adept at ranging.

As one poster shared their heartbreaking story.. and I noted, I'm sure.. genetics does matter. You gals, had their breed going against them already.. though slightly different than Orp.. they aren't known for their longevity.

Lettuce is very healthy for my other stock of various invertebrates.

If you're talking about meal worms, darkling beetles, or red wigglers.. lettuce is not really anything other than a water source. It's consider low nutrient.

I just thought they needed some greens, but maybe not as much as I provided

Common misconception! Lettuce are NOT greens.

Maybe mustard greens or spinach.. clover, cilantro, basil, parsley??

Definitely alfalfa is a green. Or at least it's a grass.. please remember that chlorophyll does NOT indicate nutritive value... And MY information on sprouting says there is equal nutrients with less (mold) issues when sprouts are done only until day 3 verses day 7 of fodder with full "greenness"..
http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj16(4)12/9.pdf

The misconception I speak of though is that chickens need some green. Formulated rations are done so to MEET the need of poultry in captivity BY LAW according to the species and age specified on the label.

Some "green" definitely benefits the enrichment value when offered as a hanging head etc as a TREAT. Fodder trays are all the rage.. My birds, pick the seed off and leave the green behind, making anything beyond soaking the seed for a very short sprout a waste of MY time.. my birds have access to pasture all day.. and sprouts grow WAY to slow in MY temperatures. I still do it because I enjoy the experiments and have fun feeding it out. But it is NOT a means of saving money and will NOT likely impact overall health of a bird. My time is not free. The richness in egg yolk color comes from eating a WIDE array of forages and can be impacted by many things including falsely darkened with added marigold into the feed and things like using a feed based with yellow corn instead of white corn or wheat.. which might produce platinum colored yolks.. cool, but freaky!

I would venture a guess to say.. genetics complicated by malnutrition or vice versa and there could be more to the story that hasn't yet been realized... according to all the information I have seen.. Sorry you lost the 2nd girl.

I can tell from all your replies that you are going to do your very best to get things right! You got lots of good feedback on making your own feed and you MAY still be able to pursue that in the future. But taking it back t basics right now, research avian nutrition and what resources you will have available if you try to go that route. Some "small" farmers these days are getting feeds milled to their specs also. I don't have that option at my current location. But with the BYC world at your finger tips I hope you and your flock will continue to grow into everything you dream it can be!

Did you send her to the lab? Do you want to share a photo of your ladies in their happier days so we can celebrate the life they had with you?

 

[ackie]

I'm glad the food has been addressed. I too love the idea of a natural diet but I suspect that's similar to people trying to eat a caveman diet. Too much has changed in our evolution for that to really be effective, same for chickens. Mine free range all day every day, but they still devour pelleted feed. I appreciate the peace of mind knowing that someone smarter than me put the pellet composition together. I'm sure it is possible to create something similar that is homemade with protein, vitamins etc if you model it off a complete feed, if the unprocessed aspect is important to you, now that you have a better idea of their needs.

But dont feel bad. The guy at my feed store thinks that you can feed roosters only scratch, so you are not alone in this mistake.

ETA it's probably been mentioned, but malnutrition will make them more susceptible to other problems, so while they didnt waste away in a day, maybe they just didnt have the ability to fight off whatever was going on.

 

[ScratchNbawk]

Hello, I can see you want the best for your hens and are trying to give them the healthiest diet possible - this helps remind me to do my research and be really conscious of what I’m feeding my birds.
I really like what eggsighted4life said.
I recently watched a documentary on PBS, I think it was “My Life as a Turkey”. It was about a biologist (I think) who hatched wild turkeys and raised them to adult hood. Your post reminded me of it because in the beginning he specifically stated his techniques, feeding, etc, was based on the fact the turkeys were wild - not domesticated. This helped me think about my chickens in a different light, as animals we’ve changed to suit our purposes- domesticated animals. I think, with that changing, comes special needs. This is a learning experience for most of us, hopefully not just me. I wish you well with your research, and with creating your own feed if you‘d still like to take that path.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

Very sage advice, thank you.

I have this idealistic vision of my hens, happily free ranging and eating food grown at home.

But I am learning that they have more nutrient requirements than I was aware of.

Like I mentioned, I am going to provide bagged feed until the time comes that we are self sufficient enough to maintain the proper environment and produce hen feed ourselves.

We just have to build up a little more and I may have jumped the gun.

I read about a home mixture of sprouted wheat berries, peas, oatmeal, along with meal worms and oyster shell.

I can buy 50 pound bags of most of those ingredients.

Does anyone have experience with that?
Or does anyone think that would be insufficient if supplemented with free range?

Also, we are trying to avoid factory farmed meats and any of the by products from that industry. But most commercial chicken feed contains animal protein.

Personally, it just feels hypocritical for me to raise chickens to avoid that industry, yet to feed them what is probably ground up factory chickens.

I'm not being judgemental, these are just my own priorities. So if anyone can recommend a brand of feed that is affordable and meets this requirement, I would be grateful.

This is the challenge: unless you have a very large flock, I’m talking a few hundred chickens, it wouldn’t be worth your time or money to mill your own chicken feed.
You would need all of the proper ingredients and vitamin and mineral additives and all in the correct balance to make it nutritionally complete. You would end up with a large amount of product, which would be okay if you were going to use it up in a month maybe two. After that, your feed would begin to degrade and lose it’s nutritional value. Feed needs to be fresh. Feed mills make out because they buy ingredients in bulk and they sell it to customers. If you were planning to sell your surplus, you might make out better. But then you are talking inspections and everything that goes into being commercial.
You are better off going to a local feed store and buying a commercially prepared feed. The protein percentage and nutritional composition is guaranteed. It’s not expensive, either. You are buying for a few chickens.
By having the feed in crumbles or pellets your birds can’t pick out their favorite ingredients and ignore the rest.
If you want organic feed, it is available for a few dollars more.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

I'm here to learn! So anything else you read and would like to comment on will not be considered judgemental by me.

There is a very good article on this site about the raising of mealworms. They are very easy to raise. It tells you how to house and feed them and it’s very inexpensive. Much less expensive than buying them at a pet store.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-to-raise-mealworms.48416/

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

I'm going to have to dig through some of those threads then

My girls seem to love lettuce also.

I mainly started giving them lettuce because I stopped throwing them weeds from the garden after the season ended.

I just thought they needed some greens, but maybe not as much as I provided

I like to give my girls greens too. In fact, that is their treat, I don’t give them scratch grains except on rare occasions.
I let them eat their proper chicken feed all day, and then after supper, I throw them a few handfuls of “salad”, which consists of shredded collard greens, kale, some frozen peas, spinach leaves.I do this because they don’t free range and there is no grass in their run. They love it. They fight over the peas.